<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I have become somewhat of a stickler for always making the distinction between “fuel” and “feedstock”. I think if that distinction was observed in this case, confusion surrounding measurement of energy production would not arise.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I define “fuel” as a something that is fully consumed while being transformed into energy. There are byproducts, but they have no value.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For pyrolysis, the input is always feedstock, as it is processed into (at least) two new products - syngas and biochar. Both have value, in fact they have a wide range of uses and values. They may continue on in processes as either feedstocks or fuels. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">In a TLUD stove where the char is burned, I would still call the biomass “feedstock” that is processed into two separate fuels - syngas during stage one, and char as stage two. Each fuel has its own set of properties and will be used accordingly by an experienced cook.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Even though I have been practicing this simple distinction for years, I am still sometimes surprised by how it clarifies my thinking about processes and objectives.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Gordon West</div><div class="">The Trollworks</div><div class="">503 N. “E” Street</div><div class="">Silver City, NM 88061</div><div class="">575-537-3689</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><i class="">An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.</i></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 27, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:trmilesjr@gmail.com" class="">trmilesjr@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I
understood you to mean that the fuel was measured and the char discarded. If
the stove is leaving char at the end of a cook but the char is not being
accounted for than it shouldn’t matter what you do with the
char. Does that make sense? I can see the misreporting problem. </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Tom</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:53 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-CA" class="">
<div class="gmail-m_-3954537286956641122WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">“If the fuel conversion of the stove is based on performance without char burnout then there is no penalty…”<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">What exactly do you mean by that. I don’t want to misinterpret.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Do you mean if the char energy is subtracted from the fuel energy before converting it to an equivalent dry fuel mass?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Do you mean if the char energy is
<b class="">not </b>subtracted from the fuel energy before converting it to an equivalent dry fuel mass?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">This is the essence of the misreporting of the fuel consumption of a stove. Is it based on the fuel needed to operate, or the energy released and back-calculated to an equivalent fuel mass.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">If the fuel was measured and the char discarded, then I understand you to be saying there is no fuel penalty because the char was not affecting the claimed fuel consumption.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="">Thanks<br class="">
Crispin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""> Stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Tom Miles<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, January 27, 2020 18:28<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:stoves@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">stoves@bioenergylists.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">If the fuel conversion of the stove is based on performance without char burnout then there is no penalty for removing residual char for other purposes. In the Lifeline cases cited the uses appeared to be essential activities in the household. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">In the biochar case there can be more benefit from the agronomic uses - reduced cash for fertilizer, reduced labor for watering, improved yield, etc. - than for carbon sequestration. Depending on the application and the fuel it may be more
practical to make the biochar in other devices but it may be suited to small garden plots. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 3:15 PM Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Thank you Tom.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">For CDM projects, there is no consideration given for the removal of char in the fuel efficiency calculations, which underlies the determine of generation of CER’s. There easily
cold be, but there is not. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Only a reduction of fuel consumption is considered, and that is field-assessed. If one were to argue that the char was being sequestered in an inaccessible and permanent manner,
one could propose a new rule for the calculation of GHG’s considering retained char.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The only thing they record for stove projects is fuel mass harvested for cooking. Obviously there is an implication that the carbon is (largely) released as CO2.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Regards<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Crispin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" class=""> Stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Tom Miles<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, January 27, 2020 17:54<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> <a href="mailto:stoves@bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">stoves@bioenergylists.org</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> [Stoves] Charcoal and Stoves</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">It was an eventful gathering at the ETHOS meeting in Kirkland, Washington, USA, this weekend. Many thanks to Elisa Derby, Nordica MaCarty, the ETHOS board and volunteers for our
20th year celebration. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">It was apparent to me from the advanced modelling, lab performance data, field tests and field experiences which were reported that charcoal is an important component of household
energy and food security. Within the stove charcoal combustion contributes high peak temperatures which can improve performance and reduce emissions. This is demonstrated in the addition of the "Jet-Flame" to a Rocket Stove, which I view as a charcoal burner.
By introducing a little pressurized air at the grate you can "low on the coals". The addition of uniformly distributed undergrate air, with even a little pressure, is enough to improve char combustion and shorten the flame, which should indicate increased
carbon monoxide burnout. Aprovecho showcased the Jet-Flame at ETHOS. Their testing showed nearly complete charcoal burnout. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.chinadaily.com.cn%2Fa%2F201911%2F08%2FWS5dc507d8a310cf3e355763b2_2.html&data=02%7C01%7C%7Ccd21f956db6b433cf66808d7a380d902%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157646101206239&sdata=q1Nw0pobUoVg6fVfO%2FUWhLJL3YR5rYyH1LJrgBEo2Mc%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank" class="">https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201911/08/WS5dc507d8a310cf3e355763b2_2.html</a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Others from Lifeline said there were circumstances where the charcoal is very important for other uses in the household
and that burning out charcoal would not be desired. Someone with a better memory can remind me of what those uses were, </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Biochar advocates want to make charcoal for use in the soil while cooking, which is usually accomplished by removing
charcoal faster than you are consume it. </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">In cases where we want to leave residual charcoal or remove it to make biochar we need to balance the performance benefits
of burning the charcoal with the household needs or food security - biochar - benefits. We have new tools but we need to find out how best to use them. </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" class="">Tom</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">--
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc<br class="">
Portland, OR 97225<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc<br class="">
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">T R Miles Technical Consultants, Inc<br class="">1470 SW Woodward Way<br class="">Portland, OR 97225<br class=""><a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank" class="">tmiles@trmiles.com</a><br class=""><a href="http://www.trmiles.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.trmiles.com</a></div></div>
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