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<p>Ron and All,</p>
<p>It would be nice to know more about pressure variations inside a
TLUD and their impact on how the stove functions. This is TLUD
area in need of quality study. There are lots of intermingled and
complex cause and effect relationships.<br>
</p>
<p>Kirk H.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/12/2020 8:30 AM, Ronal Larson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:F0697D55-34AF-49A8-8A63-76CBB151F157@comcast.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Nganga and list:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Sorry.
There may be something around to help in such designs - but I
believe the extra notes in Kirk’s 9 page description is all that
is available. Kirk benefits from being able to work with
Aprovecho (Dean Still) and I know that has helped. Mostly these
ideas come from Kirk being retired and being motivated to build
better TLUDs. Kirk has identified his thoughts as hypotheses.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I
feel the TLUD topic we are most missing on is the pressure
distribution inside any TLUD</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>There
are a few good doctoral theses out there on TLUDs. I’ll try to
come up with a list.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Anyone
have other help for Nganga?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Nganga
- where are you located and why do you ask? How else can we
help?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br
class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jun 12, 2020, at 4:38 AM, nganga liambai
<<a href="mailto:nliambai@yahoo.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">nliambai@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div id="ymail_android_signature" class="">Good day Ron,</div>
<div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1591956495904"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1591956531333"
class="">Your analysis of Kirk' 3 hour TLUD below is
impressive and motivating. However, I have found it
rather too advanced in some essential aspects, Is
there some specific literature you can prescribe in
this regard to help.</div>
<div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1591957917275"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1591957919275"
class="">Nganga.</div>
<div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1591956366924"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1591956399108"
class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 20px 0;" class="">
<div style="font-family:Roboto, sans-serif;
color:#6D00F6;" class="">
<div class="">On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 1:53, Ronal
Larson</div>
<div class=""><<a
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<div style="padding: 10px 0 0 20px; margin: 10px 0 0
0; border-left: 1px solid #6D00F6;" class="">
<div id="yiv3704075010" class="">
<div class="">List:
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>1.
I list myself as a cc, because I’ve stopped
receivinging recent stove list material - for
unknown reason (even though Andrew assures me
I’m still a list member). Please list me as a
cc if you respond to this.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>2.
This is about the new stove that Kirk talked
about a few days ago - and Tom Miles gave this
backup from the stove archive site: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/files/harris_3_hour_tlud_06_04_20.pdf" style="orphans:2;white-space:pre-wrap;widows:2;" class="yiv3704075010" moz-do-not-send="true">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/files/harris_3_hour_tlud_06_04_20.pdf</a></div>
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;orphans:2;widows:2;" class="yiv3704075010"><<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://click.api.drift.com/click/baa65bd9-95ed-4749-af2e-86ac72890cf2?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2Ffiles%2Fharris_3_hour_tlud_06_04_20.pdf%3Fd_utk%3D2c66a24b-c042-4db9-905e-b77c486b8996&h=96c42694cdbd72a4e1f2c4732c6fdebd" class="yiv3704075010" moz-do-not-send="true">https://click.api.drift.com/click/baa65bd9-95ed-4749-af2e-86ac72890cf2?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstoves.bioenergylists.org%2Ffiles%2Fharris_3_hour_tlud_06_04_20.pdf%3Fd_utk%3D2c66a24b-c042-4db9-905e-b77c486b8996&h=96c42694cdbd72a4e1f2c4732c6fdebd</a>></pre>
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;orphans:2;widows:2;" class="yiv3704075010"><font class="yiv3704075010" face="Helvetica"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>You’ll need to look that over to see what I talk about below.</font><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span></pre>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>3.
To help with my present interest (with Kevin
McLean) in stoves using corn cobs, I’ve now
talked for several hours with Kirk about his
new design. My main purpose in this note is
to have others look closely at what Kirk has
told us. I know if no other TLUD that comes
anywhere close to handling 3 hours of use -
and with super emphasis on combined
char-making, efficiency and clean burns.
Will be tested as soon as virus conditions
improve.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>4.
The first new idea I see here is that the
center of pyrolysis gas combustion moves
upward as the power level increases. Anyone
seen that principle before?</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>Kirk has
a very wide range of possible power levels -
probably a turn down ratio (TDR) greater than
10 - bigger range than my home electric range.
Of course not natural draft, but a natural
draft version using his principles seems
likely to get better than TLUD's usual TDR
< 2.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>The
lowest power level is accommodated with a set
of relatively small holes just above the
maximum fuel level. There is some preheating
of that secondary air.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>Average
power levels (an incredible 5-6 kW) are
predominantly handled a few inches further up
for the pyrolysis gas volume that is too large
to be handled by the “low power" holes. This
by the excess gasses seeing some restriction -
by striking a central "blunt body”. As these
“average” gases flow outward, they create (via
Venturi principles) a lower pressure regime
that further encourages mixing. For me, two
new ideas.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>As
power level is further increased( by adjusting
blower speed and/or location), these larger
gases that could not be combusted by the first
two means meet the outer most secondary air
gases that are being forced inward at another
diameter restriction location. Also, for me,
a new idea.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>5.
Another new idea:<span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>Above
these three meetings of the two gas streams
there are further radii changes supported by a
central column - that I haven’t seen before.
Again, used to get more clean combustion and
improved efficiency. (And all planchas need
effciency help.)</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>6.
The way he is handling the fan/blower seems
new. All focused on primary air control.
His secondary air is all natural draft.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><span class="yiv3704075010Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre;"> </span>7.
Kirk has come up with this at his own
expense. To help a group interested in adding
charcoal- making to plancha type cooking.
There are several theses in here for someone
able to instrument this for the numerous
interesting pressure and turbulence variations
that Kirk has included.</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010">Kirk - thanks for all
this new work (and please correct what I have
gotten wrong here). (I think Kirk already
holds the world record for cleanliness - I
hear that testers are sure it can’t be as
clean as he has already proven he can get.)</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010">Ron</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
<div class="yiv3704075010"><br
class="yiv3704075010">
</div>
</div>
</div>
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