<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">List;<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I believe the following is self explanatory - and important for anyone thinking of really large stoves.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Begin forwarded message:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">From: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Ronal Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Subject: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Re: [Biochar] Rocket stove design for retort heating #rocketstove #retort</b><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Date: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">January 3, 2021 at 4:36:18 PM MST<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">To: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Trevor Richards <<a href="mailto:trevor@soilcarbon.org.nz" class="">trevor@soilcarbon.org.nz</a>>, "<a href="mailto:main@biochar.groups.io" class="">main@biochar.groups.io</a>" <<a href="mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io" class="">main@Biochar.groups.io</a>><br class=""></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif; color:rgba(0, 0, 0, 1.0);" class=""><b class="">Cc: </b></span><span style="font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">"kevin McLean >" <<a href="mailto:info@sun24.solar" class="">info@sun24.solar</a>>, Ken Carloni <<a href="mailto:ken.carloni@gmail.com" class="">ken.carloni@gmail.com</a>>, Bill Knauss <<a href="mailto:wmknauss@gmail.com" class="">wmknauss@gmail.com</a>>, Norman Baker <<a href="mailto:ntbakerphd@gmail.com" class="">ntbakerphd@gmail.com</a>>, Kirk Harris <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net" class="">gkharris316@comcast.net</a>><br class=""></span></div><br class=""><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">Trevor and biochar list with 5 ccs:</span><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Inserts below but first: why I’ve added 5 more . (all with whom I ‘ve had multiple valuable conversations; and all in this area as volunteers - not needing to make a profit - and all I believe highly willing to share biochar (and stove/retort) experiences )</div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Kevin(FL): Sees a need for something like you are designing for the large cook pots (200 liter or more?) now often/mainly using 3 rocks in many rural public schools - especially in Africa.</div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Ken (OR): Has written a great report on using 200-liter barrels/drums, not as TLUDs or retorts, but split to enclose something like a really large flame-cap Kon-Tiki</div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Bill (NM): Has built and tested a char making TLUD bigger than yours both in diameter and height. Not a retort above a TLUD, but similar issues below.</div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Norm (WA); has the best knowledge I know re 200 liter barrels/drums as TLUDs </div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Kirk (CA); Has designed a large TLUD for use with planchas - with run time exceeding 2 (3?) hours</div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></div><div style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre; font-size: 15px;"> </span><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">Your 5-point description below is first rate. I hope Kevin, Ken, Bill, Norm, and, Kirk will add to my thoughts. </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>This is an important topic. </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-size: 15px; white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">Needs to be on the stoves list as well. (I’ll send next.)</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> Last remark reminds me there is a new beginning ISO effort on how to rate and rank stoes above 150 liter cook-pot size - and you might find thatt helpful or vice versa.</span></div><div class=""><br style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div class="">On Jan 3, 2021, at 2:00 PM, Trevor Richards <<a href="mailto:trevor@soilcarbon.org.nz" class="">trevor@soilcarbon.org.nz</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_default">Hi Paul,</div><div class="gmail_default">This is an option being considered & was also suggested by Ron. These are some design considerations:</div><ul class=""><li class="">The pressure vessel we have for conversion to retort is 1000mm between dome ends & 800Dia (~500L). Current idea is to elevate retort to comfortable access height on its side (say 1m above ground) & fabricate swing door from one dome end. This gives 1m to play with under the retort. This could be extended with a pit but then we are handling TLUD's below our feet or in a trench or we house separately and duct heat/gasses to the retort furnace chamber.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="font-size: 15px; white-space: pre;"> </span><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">[</span><b style="font-size: 15px;" class="">RWL1 - should work. </b></div><div class=""><b style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class=""><b style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> I have been thinking with </b><b class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">Kevin of the lower part of a vertical 200 liter drum/barrel operated as a </span></b><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">TLUD</span><b class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""> that would sit under your “pressure vessel”, whose height above ground would then be less than a meter (as are 200 liter drums).</span></b></div><div class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></span></b></div><div class=""><b style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The additions we have been considering to your </b><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><b class="">TLUD thinking below is an added skirt whose height will cover both the lower TLUD and the upper “cook-pot/retort”. Separating primary and secondary air has many possible alternatives. We can discuss that more, if you wish</b>.</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""></span><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><ul class=""><li class="">Need to be able to extract (swap out?)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="gmail_default">a hot<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>TLUD from the furnace chamber to quench.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><b class="">[RWL2: Yup. Your upper retort is too big to move as one with a cook pot above a small TLUD. I’ve been thinking of sliding the big TLUD out - maybe on rails if needed. Of course needs to have a smaller OD than your retort.</b></span></div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><ul class=""><li class="">TLUD would need to be sized to complete the retort heating phase ... how to size & design based on limitations</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><b style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>RWL3: Yup Same issue for Kevin, Bill and Kirk (not Norm and Bill)</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><ul class=""><li class="">A rocket stove could more easily fit within space available & be kept fed until gas ignition but maybe slow & labor intensive... again, how to estimate fuel load needed for our retort?</li></ul></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b style="font-size: 15px;" class="">[RWL4: Yup. A cook pot can’t give off useful gases as can your retort design, so you might not need too much “stove” below - especially with a skirt (which will help on operator comfort, speed ,and efficiency.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><ul class=""><li class="">Could assume 200-300kg of wood @25-35%MC when loaded.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b style="font-size: 15px;" class="">[RWL5: All of the above experts can help with that estimate. Use maybe 15 MJ/kg (wet) wood, use maybe density of .6 or .7? Kevin will recommend much lower density corn cobs because of cost. I have never seen a good analysis of energy needed for your sort of retort. Anyone on the list cable to give Trevor and estimate based on his 200-300 kg size/shape retort.</b></div><div class=""><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>In sum, I hope you stick with the TLUD over the Rocket</b></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><b style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class=""><b style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Good luck. Keep us informed.</b></div><div class=""><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class=""><b class="">Ron</b></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div dir="ltr" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span class="gmail_default">Your comments appreciated.</span><br class=""></div><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 09:08, Paul S Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div lang="EN-US" class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Trevor,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Why not start your retort with heat from a TLUD that will give you 70% of the heat and a lot of char in addition to what you get from the retort?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Paul</p></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-size: 15px;" class=""><div class="gmail_quote" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div lang="EN-US" class=""><div class=""><div style="border-color: currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor blue; border-style: none none none solid; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-style: solid none none; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io" target="_blank" class="">main@Biochar.groups.io</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io" target="_blank" class="">main@Biochar.groups.io</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Trevor Richards via<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://groups.io/" target="_blank" class="">groups.io</a><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, January 1, 2021 4:57 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:main@Biochar.groups.io" target="_blank" class="">main@Biochar.groups.io</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Biochar] Rocket stove design for retort heating #rocketstove #retort</p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Looking for advice on designing a rocket stove to provide startup heating for a 500L retort.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">The plan is to cut one dome end off a steel pressure vessel to create a door. The vessel (Dia~0.8, L~1.0m) would on its side within a well insulated fire box. The idea is to use a rocket stove under the retort until gas ignition is sustained. I assume this has been tested before so I'm interested in...<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><ul type="disc" class=""><li class="MsoNormal">guidance on H&MB calcs to estimate heating time to gas ignition, based on some typical wood biomass assumptions<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></li><li class="MsoNormal">design & sizing of rocket stove (will it even be practical heating solution).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></li></ul><ul type="disc" class=""><ul type="circle" class=""><li class="MsoNormal">supplement with a small TLUD to kick off retort heating?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></li></ul></ul><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">comments & suggestions welcome.<br class="">Thanks, trevor<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>