<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
</head>
<body>
<div><a href="https://youtu.be/IsrvrK2R76M" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/IsrvrK2R76M&source=gmail&ust=1617331598274000&usg=AFQjCNHpod8KHKlv7eZ15P1TP0KvnFArdw" style="text-decoration-line: none; color: rgb(66, 133, 244);">https://youtu.be/IsrvrK2R76M</a>
<div dir="auto">Natural Draft with no fan.</div>
<div dir="auto">Burns just like this all the way through after startup then it smokes a bit just as the pyrolysis front reaches the bottom. </div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Here's what it looks like during the daytime. Same stove next day after startup.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><a href="https://youtu.be/4N-LJHzdrns" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?q=https://youtu.be/4N-LJHzdrns&source=gmail&ust=1617331598274000&usg=AFQjCNEODGvMoZnqIZ7GxYotzqJalNA_tQ" style="text-decoration-line: none; color: rgb(66, 133, 244);">https://youtu.be/4N-LJHzdrns</a><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px;">
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Stoves <stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org> on behalf of stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org <stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 27, 2021 5:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Stoves Digest, Vol 127, Issue 19</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt;">
<div class="PlainText">Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<br>
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. ***SPAM*** Re: [tluds] update on the TLUD (Harris, Kirk)<br>
2. ***SPAM*** Re: Fwd: [tluds] update on the TLUD (Harris, Kirk)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 17:39:03 -0700<br>
From: "Harris, Kirk" <gkharris316@comcast.net><br>
To: tluds@Biochar.groups.io<br>
Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: [tluds] update on the TLUD<br>
Message-ID: <e0502b2d-e958-8399-6eb0-2a3982b0f132@comcast.net><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Ron,<br>
<br>
Thank you for responding.<br>
<br>
-The power level I did this test at was the highest power level the <br>
stove can reach without smoking.? It is forced air primary, and the <br>
stove in the video is natural draft.? My natural draft power level would <br>
probably be similar to his, but without smoke or soot.? I am using <br>
pellets, which could be considered a denser fuel, energy wise.? The <br>
forced air primary flame must be brought up to power slowly, to heat the <br>
stove, or it will smoke during the transition.<br>
<br>
-The natural draft makes charcoal.? The forced air primary does as well <br>
but the higher power levels tend to burn char.? There must be a lot of <br>
air that gets past the migratory pyrolysis front and into the char.<br>
<br>
-I will test a standard pot for you.<br>
<br>
-I don't know the cost of commercial skirts.? Aprovecho can tell you.<br>
<br>
-My experiments with TLUDs have lead me to 4 basic principles for mixing <br>
in a TLUD:<br>
<br>
1.? The surface contact between the gasses should be maximized: <br>
Turbulence provides this and so does spreading the flame with a bluff body.<br>
<br>
2.? Depth of penetration should be minimized:? Turbulence does this and <br>
so does spreading the flame with a bluff body<br>
<br>
3.? Diffusion:? Works in Turbulence and also when spreading the flame <br>
with a bluff body<br>
<br>
4.? Pressure difference between the gasses, which pushes the gasses <br>
together:? Turbulence wastes most of the pressure difference, spreading <br>
the flame with a bluff body maximizes the use of the pressure difference.<br>
<br>
This is a major reason why the stove can burn as clean as it does, it <br>
effectively increases and uses the pressure difference between the gasses.<br>
<br>
Kirk H.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/26/2021 7:27 AM, Ron Larson wrote:<br>
> Kirk and list:<br>
><br>
> At<br>
> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_R9Tfvs4w">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_R9Tfvs4w</a>
<br>
> <<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_R9Tfvs4w">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0_R9Tfvs4w</a>><br>
> the salesperson for the?stovetec superpot demonstrates boiling water <br>
> in 15-17 minutes using 4 sticks. ??Can you add?anything about the <br>
> comparison with your 7.5 minutes. ?You of course?had much higher?power <br>
> level - but he could?have also.<br>
><br>
> He?had?a nice amount of charcoal left. - too bad he didn?t?report on <br>
> the?amount . ?Can you add?anything on your char production, with your<br>
><br>
> The super pot shows the value of a skirt. ?Can you add more about how <br>
> much?faster the boil occurred?with the super pot and your 5? of pellets?<br>
><br>
> Can you gin uo a low cost skirt for your regular pot - and?guesstimate <br>
> the cost and energy savings?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Below your message ?below on the 24th is another?important message on <br>
> the 23rd to this list just on pressure issues with your stove. ?That <br>
> duplicated a message on the stove list on the 20th. ??Therefore I <br>
> am?sending this?message?also to the stoves list and will add a few <br>
> comments later?today on those two messages.<br>
> ?I consider them very important because they?talk about pressure <br>
> differences - which we can learn a lot from and?I think this may be <br>
> the first?such report..<br>
><br>
> Ron<br>
><br>
><br>
>> On Mar 24, 2021, at 8:19 PM, Kirk Harris <gkharris316@comcast.net <br>
>> <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net">mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> All,<br>
>><br>
>> Today I tested the stove with high-power forced primary air.? The 5 <br>
>> inch fuel reactor chamber, with aprox. 5" height of soft wood <br>
>> pellets, brought 5 liters of water to a rolling boil, in a standard <br>
>> SSM Super Pot without the lid, from 16 degrees C, in 7.5 minutes.? <br>
>> The setting was 6 on the adjustment valve as the 9 setting was to <br>
>> high and flames started coming out of the annulus between the <br>
>> combustor and fuel reactor.? The super pot does this because it <br>
>> creates more flow resistance than the simple pot I had been using.? <br>
>> Then the stove was turned down to the natural draft setting of 1, <br>
>> where it was stable and there was no smell of hydrocarbons.<br>
>><br>
>> The stove is working quite well,<br>
>><br>
>> Kirk H.<br>
>><br>
>> On 3/23/2021 11:11 AM, Kirk Harris wrote:<br>
>>> All,<br>
>>><br>
>>> Attached is a write-up on the stove I have been experimenting with <br>
>>> over the last several years.? I tried to put it on the stove <br>
>>> discussion list, but it was flagged as spam and so it must have <br>
>>> ended up in every ones spam folder.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Kirk H.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>> -- <br>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.<br>
>> <a href="https://www.avg.com">https://www.avg.com</a> <<a href="https://www.avg.com/">https://www.avg.com/</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
> _._,_._,_<br>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> Groups.io Links:<br>
><br>
> You receive all messages sent to this group.<br>
><br>
> View/Reply Online (#106) <br>
> <<a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/message/106">https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/message/106</a>> | Reply To Group
<br>
> <<a href="mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Btluds%5D%20update%20on%20the%20TLUD">mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io?subject=Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Btluds%5D%20update%20on%20the%20TLUD</a>>
<br>
> | Reply To Sender <br>
> <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Btluds%5D%20update%20on%20the%20TLUD">mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net?subject=Private:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Btluds%5D%20update%20on%20the%20TLUD</a>>
<br>
> | Mute This Topic <<a href="https://groups.io/mt/81557543/3906221">https://groups.io/mt/81557543/3906221</a>> | New Topic
<br>
> <<a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/post">https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/post</a>><br>
> Your Subscription <<a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/editsub/3906221">https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/editsub/3906221</a>>
<br>
> | Contact Group Owner <<a href="mailto:tluds+owner@Biochar.groups.io">mailto:tluds+owner@Biochar.groups.io</a>> |
<br>
> Unsubscribe <br>
> <<a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/leave/7122510/3906221/667555663/xyzzy">https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/leave/7122510/3906221/667555663/xyzzy</a>>
<br>
> [gkharris316@comcast.net]<br>
><br>
> _._,_._,_<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20210326/f25bceb5/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20210326/f25bceb5/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:15:29 -0700<br>
From: "Harris, Kirk" <gkharris316@comcast.net><br>
To: Ronal Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net>, "tluds@biochar. groups.<br>
io" <tluds@Biochar.groups.io>, Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
Subject: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Re: Fwd: [tluds] update on the TLUD<br>
Message-ID: <c88892a6-9041-4cda-d211-176460a4c0a6@comcast.net><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Ron,<br>
<br>
-The setup was quite primitive.? I had a wand which I pushed through a <br>
hole in the side of the stove and held in place.? First we left the wand <br>
outside the stove to get a reading of atmospheric pressure.? A better <br>
technique would be to attach a probe in place and run a tube out of the <br>
stove to which the sensor is attached. This would be much more stable.? <br>
We tried to hold the sensor tip perpendicular to the flow of gasses to <br>
get only the static pressure.? The system needs improvement, but we did <br>
get some basic results.? Sam attached the probe to the sensor that <br>
measures the pressure in the tubes above the test hood where all the <br>
sensors are located, so we could read out the results on the computer. <br>
The sensor has sensitivity to .001 inches of water column.<br>
<br>
-Any predictions?? Knowing the pressure is important in commercial and <br>
industrial burners, so wouldn't it be important in a TLUD.? For a <br>
natural draft stove, the initial pressure difference is provided by <br>
buoyancy.? This extends throughout the entire stove.? Once the gasses <br>
are moving, it is possible for pressure variations to occur in distinct <br>
locations within the stove.? Forced air can enhance buoyancy.? I predict <br>
that once we understand how pressure varies in TLUDs we will be able to <br>
design better TLUDs.<br>
<br>
The pressure of the flame gasses at the outside can be measured, but the <br>
actual pressure which the wood gas would be without the air adding its <br>
pressure would be difficult to measure.? Any measuring device placed in <br>
the gas flow will change the flow and so change the pressure.? We <br>
thought about shielding a portion of the gas with a shield that allows <br>
the gas to expand as it would without the shield, and then measuring the <br>
pressure of that.? We could probably get an approximation.<br>
<br>
Kirk H.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/26/2021 8:25 AM, Ronal Larson wrote:<br>
> Kirk and two lists<br>
><br>
> Yours below is a very important message - on pressure differences in a <br>
> char-making stove.<br>
><br>
> Can you give more on the way pressure was measured? ? From the top, <br>
> bottom ?or side? ? Size of piping? ? ?Any chance to measure radially, <br>
> etc. ? Can or has this been done at different power levels? ?Any <br>
> similar data for temperatures at the 4 measurement spots?<br>
><br>
><br>
> I think the pressures at the center of your stove (above atmospheric) <br>
> are not too important - there is little material there and little <br>
> motion. ?It was good to see lower pressure higher up.<br>
><br>
> There are probably some readers of this who can relate pressures and <br>
> power levels and temperatures. ?A prediction?<br>
><br>
> You have one absolute (positive) pressure at the canter. ?Any chance <br>
> at the outside where the greatest flow is occurring?<br>
><br>
> Ron<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> Begin forwarded message:<br>
>><br>
>> *From: *"Kirk Harris" <gkharris316@comcast.net <br>
>> <<a href="mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net">mailto:gkharris316@comcast.net</a>>><br>
>> *Subject: **[tluds] update on the TLUD*<br>
>> *Date: *March 23, 2021 at 12:11:50 PM MDT<br>
>> *To: *"tluds@Biochar.groups.io <<a href="mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io">mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io</a>>"
<br>
>> <tluds@Biochar.groups.io <<a href="mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io">mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io</a>>><br>
>> *Reply-To: *tluds@Biochar.groups.io <<a href="mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io">mailto:tluds@Biochar.groups.io</a>><br>
>><br>
>> All,<br>
>><br>
>> Attached is a write-up on the stove I have been experimenting with <br>
>> over the last several years.? I tried to put it on the stove <br>
>> discussion list, but it was flagged as spam and so it must have ended <br>
>> up in every ones spam folder.<br>
>><br>
>> Kirk H.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -- <br>
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.<br>
>> <a href="https://www.avg.com">https://www.avg.com</a> <<a href="https://www.avg.com/">https://www.avg.com/</a>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<br>
>> Groups.io <<a href="http://Groups.io">http://Groups.io</a>> Links: You receive all messages sent to
<br>
>> this group.<br>
>> View/Reply Online (#103): <br>
>> <a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/message/103">https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/message/103</a>
<br>
>> <<a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/message/103">https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/message/103</a>><br>
>> Mute This Topic: <a href="https://groups.io/mt/81557543/3503653">https://groups.io/mt/81557543/3503653</a>
<br>
>> <<a href="https://groups.io/mt/81557543/3503653">https://groups.io/mt/81557543/3503653</a>><br>
>> Group Owner: tluds+owner@Biochar.groups.io <br>
>> <<a href="mailto:tluds+owner@Biochar.groups.io">mailto:tluds+owner@Biochar.groups.io</a>><br>
>> Unsubscribe: <br>
>> <a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/leave/9337411/3503653/827832023/xyzzy">
https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/leave/9337411/3503653/827832023/xyzzy</a> <br>
>> <<a href="https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/leave/9337411/3503653/827832023/xyzzy">https://Biochar.groups.io/g/tluds/leave/9337411/3503653/827832023/xyzzy</a>>
<br>
>> [rongretlarson@comcast.net <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>>]<br>
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20210326/d8baa848/attachment-0001.html">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20210326/d8baa848/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Stoves Digest, Vol 127, Issue 19<br>
***************************************<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</body>
</html>