<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Kevin, Paul et al:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. Wow. 2 billion dung-stove users!. I had not been paying attention to the large number combusting dung - and do agree we should be trying to improve its combustion in cookstoves. It might even be possible to make them fairly clean. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. But I think it much better to promote a switch to charcoal-making stoves. Not just for dung, but for every fuel. Guaranteed to be cleaner, but also money making because of application of the char to agriculture. And we need urgently to be practicing carbon dioxide removal (CDR).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. Re TLUDs and dung, I found TLIUD support in this 2014 non-fee paper: <span class="title-text" style="color: rgb(80, 80, 80); font-family: NexusSerif, Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, STIXGeneral, "Cambria Math", "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Microsoft Sans Serif", "Segoe UI Symbol", "Arial Unicode MS", serif; font-size: 1.5rem; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">A Biochar-producing, Dung-burning Cookstove for Humanitarian Purposes</span><a name="baep-article-footnote-id3" href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39#aep-article-footnote-id3" class="workspace-trigger label" style="font-family: NexusSerif, Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, STIXGeneral, "Cambria Math", "Lucida Sans Unicode", "Microsoft Sans Serif", "Segoe UI Symbol", "Arial Unicode MS", serif; font-size: 1.5rem; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0px 8px; padding: 0px; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(12, 125, 187); word-break: break-word;">☆</a> </div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39" class="">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39</a><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4. They used dung from a zoo - and found giraffe dung the best. I did have occasion recently to also see some giraffe dung at the Denver zoo. Really a wonderful size, shape and uniformity with giraffe dung . Unfortunately giraffes are also a releaser of enteric methane. </div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Lots of good combined methane and dung data at this site:</div><div class=""> <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/tellusb.v38i3-4.15135</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Maybe we can promote conversion to the dung of non-ruminants - such as warthogs?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>5. And hope we can all agree with Paul Olivier - on eventual no combustion of dung of any type. But I may still be promoting more pyrolysis of dung - to sped up carbon content increase in soils.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 6, 2023, at 2:12 AM, Kevin McLean <kevin@sun24.org> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Paul, Ron,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The only site I can find on the number of people relying on dung as a cooking fuel says it is <a href="https://energypedia.info/wiki/Cooking_with_Dung#cite_note-Solid_Biofuels_http:.2F.2Fbiofuel.org.uk.2Fsolid-biofuels.html-1" class="">two billion people</a>. I doubt it is this high, but it's probably in the hundreds of millions. Most are probably in South Asia. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Cooking with dung is exceptionally dirty. This soot contains black carbon, a powerful climate forcer. And this soot contributes to air pollution. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I'm working with a group that is trying to slow glacial melt in the Himalayas. Soot landing on glaciers is a primary cause of glacial melt. Some think that cooking with biomass may be the primary source of soot that lands on Himalayan glaciers. <br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I agree that there are better uses of dung. And I agree that it would be best if everyone used cooking methods that are cleaner than burning dung. But the fact is that many millions of families will continue to cook with dung indefinitely. It would be good if we can make cooking with dung cleaner and more efficient until these families transition to something better.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Kevin</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 11:59 PM Ronal Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">Kevin, Paul and stoves list<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>1. What is the reason for this test of a rocket - instead of a TLUD or other char-making design?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>2. I agree with Paul, but I can conceive of cost, time spent, and CDR advantages of charring dung, at lest with certain family situations. But I can’t see those advantages with combusting dung.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 5, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank" class="">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">Dung is not a good fuel.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">It is much better to ferment it and use it as a feed.</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 10:12 PM Kevin McLean <<a href="mailto:kevin@sun24.org" target="_blank" class="">kevin@sun24.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><div class="gmail_default">List,</div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">Today we tested a dung rocket stove. I'm a little surprised that the test was a failure. Can anyone suggest changes? And can anyone in India help us with our testing of dung as fuel?</div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">This is very similar to a sawdust cookstove. We made cylinders of dung with vertical holes in the center and let them dry for a month. We did not mix anything into the dung. We used 5 liter paint cans to form the cylinders.</div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj600us0" class=""><Dung rocket stove - wet.jpeg></span></div><div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj6io623" class=""><Dung cylinder - Failed test.jpeg></span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">We tested with and without a metal can over the dung cylinder. We raised the cylinder and lit a wood fire under it. The fire was never strong and there was a lot of smoke. Here is a <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xCrABfFFOVlvtGn925VW8FT9lXl660Zk/view?usp=share_link" target="_blank" class="">video</a> of the test with a metal can over the dung cylinder.</div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">We seem to be having early success with upright dung sticks in a metal band and top lighting piles of dung patties. But these need to be tested by people more familiar with using dung as fuel.</div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj6ce5p1" class=""><Dung sticks in a metal band.jpeg></span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj6cr6n2" class=""><TDB of pile of dung patties.jpeg></span><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default">We could use some help from someone in an area where dung is used for cooking. None of my colleagues live in such an area.</div><div class="gmail_default"><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Thanks, </div><div class="">Kevin</div><div class=""><br class=""></div>Kevin McLean, President<div class=""><a href="http://sun24.org/" target="_blank" class="">Sun24.org</a></div></div></div></div></div>
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