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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">Dear Kevin </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">There are a few stoves designed to burn dung, depending on the presentation. In general, dung requires very good control of the primary air supply because it devolatilizes easily. </div>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">I was involved in an Engineer's Without Borders project to burn yak dung above 14,000 ft in Tibet in a Vesto stove (which was used indoors, amazingly) and that worked well (no smoke). </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
</div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">There is an open source design for a cooking and heating stove available in the Library/Stoves/Kyrgyzstan at www.newdawnengineering.com - look for model KG2.0 and the larger KG2.5,
the latter being far more developed with cast iron top decks and chimney connection. It can burn for 4 to 5 hours unattended, which is rare for a dung burner. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
</div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">There is a design available (licensed) for a Kay Dung burning stove shaped to the traditional expectations for southern Tibet. The rights to this are divided between China and not-China.
It uses yak dung as it occurs naturally - which is a large pellet. No processing is expected. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
</div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">All dung is high ash and requires relatively large grate gaps. And a grate of course. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">In Central Asia cooking and heating with dung is very common among the rural and the poor. It is better and pressed into round dinner plate sized cookies about 60mm think in the centre
and 25 at the edge. These are slapped on a South facing wall to dry. Homes may accumulate several tons under shelter - 5 or more. It should be very dry when burned. </div>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">It is broken into 4 pie-slice-shaped parts before burning. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">The required conditions (in my experience) are:</div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">Low and controllable primary air. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">More than usual secondary air, preheated if possible. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">A separate section where the gases and smoke are burned away from the pyrolysis zone. One way to do this is the flame tube used in the KG2.5. It is so effective at this tertiary combustion
that cooking can be done on top of the heat exchanger above the exit of the flame tube. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">The concept of "end lighting" is very useful. The fire is lighted at the entrance of the flame tube and fuel packed towards the air source. The fire will evolve towards the air source.
New smoke is burned in the hot zone before entering the flame tube where most of the remaining CO will burn. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">There will be lot of fly ash because there is so much, and it is so light. This means access to "inner chambers" must be provided. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
</div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">To burn dung in a vertical chamber (only, for one pot cooking) all the above applies so it needs staged combustion and enough room to finish the flames before striking the pot. The
minimum height needed is about 425mm, to 450. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">I burned not particularly dry dung in Ethiopia in a Vesto and it made no smoke or smell at all. I have some photos of that. The flame is greenish because of minerals. Very unexpected.
And pretty. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">With reference to the KG2.5, there are sets of old drawings cached there. The heat exchanger was shortened by 80mm for the final version because the efficiency was too high. The chimney
temperature was too low as a result. This will result in condensation in the chimney so if you go that route, it is something to watch for. </div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%"><br>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">You can top light dung if it can breathe well enough, and do not try to pass all the second air through the fuel. It will smoke a lot. The fuel is not "smoky", stoves that cannot burn
it, are. The smoke is unburned fuel. </div>
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<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">Best wished</div>
<div name="BB10" id="BB10_response_div_BBPPID" dir="auto" style="width:100%">Crispin </div>
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<div id="from"><b>From:</b> tmiles@trmiles.com</div>
<div id="sent"><b>Sent:</b> January 6, 2023 9:05 AM</div>
<div id="to"><b>To:</b> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</div>
<div id="reply_to"><b>Reply-to:</b> stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</div>
<div id="subject"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">SNV put a lot of effort into the development of dung stoves for high altitudes several years ago.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Leaching nutrients and minerals from dung prior to drying and burning makes a lot of sense. The principle has been used at the farm and industrial scale. Key nutrients are about 90% water soluble. The challenge is often finding enough water.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Stoves <stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>K McLean<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 6, 2023 6:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Richard, </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can you please explain further? I don't understand. Do you have photos or videos?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jan 6, 2023, 9:00 AM Richard Stanley <<a href="mailto:rstanley@mind.net">rstanley@mind.net</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Not true paul or only partially true! In rural kenya our partners francis and mary kavita showed hor one sieves out the aromatics and dissolved solids by sloshing the patties of dung in water— then has a good liquid feetiliser as well as
a spongy lignin which makes a great fuel whether briquetted or not. Same</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> I discovered that the same process applies to peat in Ireland. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Its good by stink and smoke; hello to clean burn and liquid fertiliser.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Richard Stanley</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.legacyfound.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ccbfba483403e4da9441008daefffd026%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638086179322481080%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ankmll%2Ft3BreF6HdYc2bD%2Fs5v15Dfv0eXNEJUjYCVVc%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://www.legacyfound.org/" shash="wM4Q4VfekcQ1mHOBuZyQ7p5UDWbcSOHssUFDaSMxGr4GxhhyL3Oxxhdev/clvGcTt9BEszzjuSEjMDX2wMUiKv4IPDacUgrrCCKDwqj7nC8QkInXYEYLIo8cTGlB0uzUdroDHbDo6ar0lWLkyLp2aPz+IqFB9LZUzfX3dyqXr7k=" target="_blank">www.legacyfound.org</a></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 6, 2023, at 4:28 AM, <a href="mailto:peetersfrans@telenet.be" target="_blank">
peetersfrans@telenet.be</a> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Dear KEVIN</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">I think we discsed 30 y ago about frensh frees …..but Canada was to cold for patatos down 1,5 $ !</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">I remember you wash salt out of dunge and looked for analytics for the ash danger .</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">As for dung cooking/baking ,it is done in Anatolia TURKEY. No trees ,to see. villages of mud and corn looks haver, no mais .</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">The fireplace is chimney fumehood integrated about 3 meter high and always a pasat wind avaiable .
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">To replace it you need a suction stove , fan , jet or and partial wood/dung using in the 3th world only…</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Regards</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">F.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span lang="NL">Van:</span></b><span lang="NL"> Stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>
<b>Namens </b>Ronal Larson<br>
<b>Verzonden:</b> vrijdag 6 januari 2023 5:54<br>
<b>Aan:</b> Kevin McLean <<a href="mailto:kevin@sun24.org" target="_blank">kevin@sun24.org</a>>; Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Stoves] ***SPAM*** Dung Rocket Stove - Failed Test</span></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Kevin, Paul and stoves list</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> 1. What is the reason for this test of a rocket - instead of a TLUD or other char-making design?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> 2. I agree with Paul, but I can conceive of cost, time spent, and CDR advantages of charring dung, at lest with certain family situations. But I can’t see those advantages with combusting dung.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Ron</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">On Jan 5, 2023, at 9:57 AM, Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:18.0pt; font-family:"Georgia",serif">Dung is not a good fuel.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:18.0pt; font-family:"Georgia",serif">It is much better to ferment it and use it as a feed.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 10:12 PM Kevin McLean <<a href="mailto:kevin@sun24.org" target="_blank">kevin@sun24.org</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt">List,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Today we tested a dung rocket stove. I'm a little surprised that the test was a failure. Can anyone suggest changes? And can anyone in India help us with our testing of dung as fuel?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt">This is very similar to a sawdust cookstove. We made cylinders of dung with vertical holes in the center and let them dry for a month. We did not mix anything into the dung. We used 5 liter paint
cans to form the cylinders.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><Dung rocket stove - wet.jpeg></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><Dung cylinder - Failed test.jpeg></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt">We tested with and without a metal can over the dung cylinder. We raised the cylinder and lit a wood fire under it. The fire was never strong and there was a lot of smoke. Here is a <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1xCrABfFFOVlvtGn925VW8FT9lXl660Zk%2Fview%3Fusp%3Dshare_link&data=05%7C01%7C%7Ccbfba483403e4da9441008daefffd026%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638086179322481080%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=DZK%2FvW9DfJFm28hZlea7S5q67k1cSxOHqKrQI7GFbZI%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xCrABfFFOVlvtGn925VW8FT9lXl660Zk/view?usp=share_link" shash="PSzg3BwQzBAneIey/+joY4gXVV8hdbEqywvzba6qgjSZPHT6XuOSf6ho4sjx8hKK5jx0Kxh+cIT4msTkOfNXbDm+LwE/kpuyqW4qHPQszdguR+5mvxcjwCbEAzcVaN44P+nOxpxMok6w7BPA4i52DygECZ8suq/1Ljk3V7gBnSI=" target="_blank">video</a> of
the test with a metal can over the dung cylinder.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt">We seem to be having early success with upright dung sticks in a metal band and top lighting piles of dung patties. But these need to be tested by people more familiar with using dung as fuel.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><Dung sticks in a metal band.jpeg></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><TDB of pile of dung patties.jpeg></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt">We could use some help from someone in an area where dung is used for cooking. None of my colleagues live in such an area.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Thanks, </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Kevin</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="">Kevin McLean, President</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Georgia",serif">Paul A. Olivier PhD<br>
104/43 Phu Dong Thien Vuong<br>
Dalat<br>
Vietnam<br>
<br>
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)<br>
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)<br>
Skype address: Xpolivier<br>
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