<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Paul and list<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Fantastic set of photos! Thanks.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I can’t find photos from last week - and yours are 15+ years old - and we need all three to tell the story.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I think many of us live near a zoo and probably can talk our way into a plentiful supply. In this case I think maybe horse dung - not cattle. Anyone able to confirm those are from horses? Maybe Yaks? If guaranteed to be horse dung, then we don’t need zoos.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>They probably are already pretty expert in burning the dung in the bottom photo. But many on this list can probably conceive of a char-making approach. Won’t be easy. We’ll probably need something 3-4 times the size stove shown - to get practical cook times, with the low density fuel.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Or rmaybe there is a means of densifying the dung?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>if cattle dung is available easily to anyone - that will certainly be worth using instead - for other countries.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Anyone on the list able to answer any of the above speculations?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Not pertinent - but the cheese to the left of the stove in the middle photo is in a home-made container that is round at the top and square at the bottom. Never Jenn one before.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 14, 2023, at 11:45 AM, Paul Arveson <<a href="mailto:paularveson@gmail.com" class="">paularveson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Below are three photos of a dung stove I saw in Mongolia in
2007. It had a chimney, and the cook prepared a variety of cheese
products with this stove. There is not much wood to burn in
Mongolia. <br class="">
</p><p class="">Paul Arveson<br class="">
</p>
<span id="cid:part1.bpuvy6Yp.Pja2vedj@gmail.com"><Mongolia-cook.JPG></span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
</div>
<span id="cid:part2.WbFZeOf0.wqy3ZfRr@gmail.com"><Mongolia-stove.JPG></span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
</div>
<span id="cid:part3.l0TBi7Ml.HdfIhPF8@gmail.com"><Mongolia-dung.JPG></span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/6/2023 7:09 PM, Ronal Larson
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:88C54ECA-B36E-40C7-B160-DB2527EFAFDB@comcast.net" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
Kevin, Paul et al:
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1.
Wow. 2 billion dung-stove users!. I had not been paying
attention to the large number combusting dung - and do agree
we should be trying to improve its combustion in cookstoves.
It might even be possible to make them fairly clean. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2.
But I think it much better to promote a switch to
charcoal-making stoves. Not just for dung, but for every fuel.
Guaranteed to be cleaner, but also money making because of
application of the char to agriculture. And we need urgently to
be practicing carbon dioxide removal (CDR).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3.
Re TLUDs and dung, I found TLIUD support in this 2014 non-fee
paper: <span class="title-text" style="color: rgb(80, 80,
80); font-family: NexusSerif, Georgia, "Times New
Roman", Times, STIXGeneral, "Cambria Math",
"Lucida Sans Unicode", "Microsoft Sans
Serif", "Segoe UI Symbol", "Arial Unicode
MS", serif; font-size: 1.5rem; box-sizing: border-box;
margin: 0px; padding: 0px;">A Biochar-producing, Dung-burning
Cookstove for Humanitarian Purposes</span><a name="baep-article-footnote-id3" href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39#aep-article-footnote-id3" class="workspace-trigger label" style="font-family:
NexusSerif, Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times,
STIXGeneral, "Cambria Math", "Lucida Sans
Unicode", "Microsoft Sans Serif", "Segoe
UI Symbol", "Arial Unicode MS", serif;
font-size: 1.5rem; box-sizing: border-box; margin: 0px 0px 0px
8px; padding: 0px; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(12, 125,
187); word-break: break-word;" moz-do-not-send="true">☆</a> </div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877705814010509?ref=pdf_download&fr=RR-2&rr=78585566ce291f39</a>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4.
They used dung from a zoo - and found giraffe dung the best.
I did have occasion recently to also see some giraffe dung
at the Denver zoo. Really a wonderful size, shape and
uniformity with giraffe dung . Unfortunately giraffes are
also a releaser of enteric methane. </div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Lots
of good combined methane and dung data at this site:</div>
<div class=""> <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/tellusb.v38i3-4.15135">https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3402/tellusb.v38i3-4.15135</a></div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Maybe
we can promote conversion to the dung of non-ruminants - such
as warthogs?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>5.
And hope we can all agree with Paul Olivier - on eventual no
combustion of dung of any type. But I may still be
promoting more pyrolysis of dung - to sped up carbon content
increase in soils.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 6, 2023, at 2:12 AM, Kevin McLean
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kevin@sun24.org"><kevin@sun24.org></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Paul,
Ron,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">The
only site I can find on the number of people relying
on dung as a cooking fuel says it is <a href="https://energypedia.info/wiki/Cooking_with_Dung#cite_note-Solid_Biofuels_http:.2F.2Fbiofuel.org.uk.2Fsolid-biofuels.html-1" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">two billion people</a>.
I doubt it is this high, but it's probably in the
hundreds of millions. Most are probably in South
Asia. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Cooking
with dung is exceptionally dirty. This soot contains
black carbon, a powerful climate forcer. And this
soot contributes to air pollution. </div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I'm
working with a group that is trying to slow glacial
melt in the Himalayas. Soot landing on glaciers is a
primary cause of glacial melt. Some think that
cooking with biomass may be the primary source of soot
that lands on Himalayan glaciers. <br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">I
agree that there are better uses of dung. And I agree
that it would be best if everyone used cooking methods
that are cleaner than burning dung. But the fact is
that many millions of families will continue to cook
with dung indefinitely. It would be good if we can
make cooking with dung cleaner and more efficient
until these families transition to something better.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Kevin</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at
11:59 PM Ronal Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">Kevin, Paul and stoves list
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>1.
What is the reason for this test of a rocket -
instead of a TLUD or other char-making design?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>2.
I agree with Paul, but I can conceive of cost,
time spent, and CDR advantages of charring
dung, at lest with certain family situations.
But I can’t see those advantages with combusting
dung.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Ron<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 5, 2023, at 9:57 AM,
Paul Olivier <<a href="mailto:paul.olivier@esrla.com" target="_blank" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">paul.olivier@esrla.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">Dung
is not a good fuel.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:large">It
is much better to ferment it and use
it as a feed.</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On
Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 10:12 PM Kevin
McLean <<a href="mailto:kevin@sun24.org" target="_blank" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">kevin@sun24.org</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
<div class="gmail_default">List,</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">Today
we tested a dung rocket stove.
I'm a little surprised that the
test was a failure. Can anyone
suggest changes? And can anyone
in India help us with our
testing of dung as fuel?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">This is
very similar to a sawdust
cookstove. We made cylinders of
dung with vertical holes in the
center and let them dry for a
month. We did not mix anything
into the dung. We used 5 liter
paint cans to form the
cylinders.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj600us0" class=""><Dung rocket stove
- wet.jpeg></span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj6io623" class=""><Dung cylinder -
Failed test.jpeg></span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">We
tested with and without a metal
can over the dung cylinder. We
raised the cylinder and lit a
wood fire under it. The fire
was never strong and there was a
lot of smoke. Here is a <a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xCrABfFFOVlvtGn925VW8FT9lXl660Zk/view?usp=share_link" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">video</a> of
the test with a metal can over
the dung cylinder.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">We seem
to be having early success with
upright dung sticks in a metal
band and top lighting piles of
dung patties. But these need to
be tested by people more
familiar with using dung as
fuel.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj6ce5p1" class=""><Dung sticks in a
metal band.jpeg></span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span id="m_2718856423846831832cid:ii_lcj6cr6n2" class=""><TDB of pile of
dung patties.jpeg></span><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">We
could use some help from someone
in an area where dung is used
for cooking. None of my
colleagues live in such an area.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Thanks, </div>
<div class="">Kevin</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Kevin McLean, President
<div class=""><a href="http://sun24.org/" target="_blank" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Sun24.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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