[Digestion] le taux de conversion en methane
Paul Harris
paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
Thu Mar 31 16:55:39 CDT 2011
G’day (bonjour),
I am pleased to say that my schoolboy French allowed me to basically
understand that you are asking about the need for oxygen and Buswell’s
equation, but I am not going to try and respond in French (except via Alta
Vista translations, that did help me understand your query a bit better).
I am an agricultural engineer so my chemistry is limited, but it must be
only dissolved oxygen that restricts the anaerobes as there is oxygen in the
water that is necessary for digestion to occur (I had not thought of this
till you asked the question!). I suggest that the hydrolysis stage uses
oxygen ions (so no free oxygen can inhibit the anaerobes) and the reason
that Buswell overestimates methane production is that not all the substrate
can be used by micro-organisms as they begin to “starve to death” as their
food supply depletes.
I hope this helps,
HOOROO (au revoir)
Je suis heureux de dire que mon Français d'écolier m'a permis de comprendre
fondamentalement que vous vous enquérez du besoin d'oxygène et d'équation de
Buswell, mais je ne vais pas essayer et répondre en français (excepté par
l'intermédiaire des traductions d'Alta Vista, qui m'ont aidé à comprendre
votre question un peu mieux). Je suis un ingénieur agricole ainsi ma chimie
est limitée, mais ce doit être seulement un oxygène dissous qui limite les
anaérobies car il y a de l'oxygène dans l'eau qui est nécessaire pour que la
digestion se produise (je n'avais pas pensé à ceci jusqu'à ce que vous ayez
posé la question !). Je propose que l'étape d'hydrolyse emploie des ions de
l'oxygène (ainsi aucun oxygène libre ne peut empêcher les anaérobies) et la
raison pour laquelle la production de méthane de sur-estimations de Buswell
est que non tout le substrat peut être employé par des micro-organismes
pendant qu'elles commencent “meurent de faim à la mort” pendant que leurs
approvisionnements alimentaires épuisent.
Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61
8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386
<mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au> mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
<http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris>
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
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From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of elamin
afilal
Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 6:52 AM
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Digestion] le taux de conversion en methane
bonjour,
sachant que la biomethanisation est une succession d'étapes, et donc tous
dépend de la première? est ce que lors des étapes suivantes, la première est
totalement arrêté? la première étape d'hydrolyse à besoin d'O2, et la
dernière étape ne tolère pas l'O2, donc une fois l'O2 est épuisé, les autres
phases démarrent? c'est ça l'explication pourquoi la formule de BUSWEL donne
toujours un taux de conversion théorique plus élevé que l'expérience? est ce
que vous avez une autre explication ?
Merci
---------------------------------------------------
Pr.AFILAL Mohamed Elamin
Université Mohamed Premier
Laboratoire de Biologie des Plantes et Micro-organismes
B.P: 524, 60 000 Oujda MAROC
Mobile : 212-661 087309
Tel fix: 212-536.511354
Fax: 212-536510432
m.afilal at fso.ump.ma
_____
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<digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>
À : digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Envoyé le : Jeu 31 mars 2011, 19h 00min 02s
Objet : Digestion Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15
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Today's Topics:
1. density of methane and bottling (Murali Krishna)
2. Re: density of methane and bottling (Paul Harris)
3. Re: density of methane and bottling (Murali Krishna)
4. Re: flame lifting (Deepak D. G.)
5. biogas stove flame (Murali Krishna)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:46:35 +0530
From: Murali Krishna <bmkrishna6 at gmail.com>
To: Digestion at bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=KnmN4D7qLvw5Pa69vvUJZsCD9acdaMb+t2jmY at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
I shall thank you to clarify the follwoing:
The density of methane is shown as 0.67, 0.72 and 1.2 on the web. Presuming
that 1000 cubic meter of methane at 70% in biogas, purified upto 95% and
then compressed what will be the output of gas in kgs. It is likely to be
compressed at three stages upto 180 bar pressure.
Krishna
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:14 +1030
From: "Paul Harris" <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling
Message-ID: <001b01cbef8d$81da84c0$858f8e40$@harris at adelaide.edu.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
G'day Krishna,
I think the different figures are for different pressures and/or
temperatures, as conventions vary. I have a value of 0.628 kg/m3 at 1.103
kPa and 20C, so 1000 m3 of biogas will become 737 cubic metres of 95%
methane. Ignoring the CO2 will give 700 m3 of methane, weighing about 440
kg. This will be the mass whatever the pressure (unless you have a leak!).
At 180 bar the volume will be approximately 4 cubic metres (at 20C).
Hope this helps,
HOOROO
Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences, The
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61
8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386 mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
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From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Murali
Krishna
Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2011 4:47 PM
To: Digestion at bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling
Hi,
I shall thank you to clarify the follwoing:
The density of methane is shown as 0.67, 0.72 and 1.2 on the web. Presuming
that 1000 cubic meter of methane at 70% in biogas, purified upto 95% and
then compressed what will be the output of gas in kgs. It is likely to be
compressed at three stages upto 180 bar pressure.
Krishna
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:41:40 +0530
From: Murali Krishna <bmkrishna6 at gmail.com>
To: paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au, For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] density of methane and bottling
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimodb83dvZ9GAsrL0t8dcLkttZgNGXkyA+Gy9+=@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Good day Paul,
Thank you for your prompt reply.
How have you arrived at 440 kg weight from 700 m3 of methane? Will you
please elaborate?
Regards,
Krishna
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Paul Harris
<paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>wrote:
> G?day Krishna,
>
>
>
> I think the different figures are for different pressures and/or
> temperatures, as conventions vary. I have a value of 0.628 kg/m3 at 1.103
> kPa and 20C, so 1000 m3 of biogas will become 737 cubic metres of 95%
> methane. Ignoring the CO2 will give 700 m3 of methane, weighing about 440
> kg. This will be the mass whatever the pressure (unless you have a leak!).
> At 180 bar the volume will be approximately 4 cubic metres (at 20C).
>
>
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> HOOROO
>
>
>
> Mr. Paul Harris, Room 202 Charles Hawker Building, Faculty of Sciences,
> The University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph
> : +61 8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386
> mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
>
>
>
> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
>
> This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains
> information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the
> intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately
> delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone
> other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No
> representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of
> viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the
> recipient.
>
>
>
> *From:* digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:
> digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Murali Krishna
> *Sent:* Thursday, 31 March 2011 4:47 PM
> *To:* Digestion at bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* [Digestion] density of methane and bottling
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I shall thank you to clarify the follwoing:
>
> The density of methane is shown as 0.67, 0.72 and 1.2 on the web.
> Presuming that 1000 cubic meter of methane at 70% in biogas, purified
upto
> 95% and then compressed what will be the output of gas in kgs. It is
likely
> to be compressed at three stages upto 180 bar pressure.
>
> Krishna
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
>
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>
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sts.org
>
> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 23:31:27 +0800
From: "Deepak D. G." <ghindwani at gmail.com>
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Digestion] flame lifting
Message-ID: <4D949E4F.1050308 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dear listeners,
I would like to consult on a issue of flame lifting.
I have installed 8 floating digesters and all are working well and the
gas production is also very good.
The only issue I have right now is the flame lifting issue, specially
with the latest installation. The latest installation, in a village in
Bali, has a capacity of 1000 liter gas tank and the distance between
the structure and the stove is about 20 meters. I used a combination of
a plastic tube and pvc of equal size and that is 1/2".
I can not get the flame burned immediately above the surface of the
burner but it is lifting. I have tried the same stove at home in which
the distance between the biogas and the stove is about 8 meters and
the flame is stable and not lifting.
Can anybody suggest solutions to this issue? thanks
Rgds,
Deepak
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:51:59 +0530
From: Murali Krishna <bmkrishna6 at gmail.com>
To: Digestion at bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Digestion] biogas stove flame
Message-ID:
<AANLkTi=cM5+vhPq8Chi6ts8zSjJ1P-Ghr=rMryxARA2K at mail.gmail.com>
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Dear Deepak,
Go through the following link. You will get a fair idea of gas stoves.
*
http://www.kingdombio.com/BiogasBurner1.pdf*
Hope this helps you.
Krishna
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for more information about digestion, see
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End of Digestion Digest, Vol 7, Issue 15
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