[Gasification] Any experience with Stak Properties 10K gasifier?

kchisholm at ca.inter.net kchisholm at ca.inter.net
Wed Jun 22 10:11:53 CDT 2011


Dear Bill

Thank you for your very helpful and comprehensive reply. It gives very  
important insights into what us "back yard gasifier folk" must do to  
get a gasifier working properly. I get three "major messages" from  
your posting:
1: For a given gasifier design, feed size is extremely important
2: For an otherwise good gasifier design and feedstock selection, the  
presence of leakage is extremely important. (Presumably, this means  
air leakage IN, in a suction system, and gas leakage OUT in a  
pressurized system.
3: Testing of the design and fuel selection, and final "tuning" is  
extremely important.

I respect the fact that you are a Commercial Gasifier Manufacturer,  
with trade secrets.  Having said and acknowledged that, I would pose  
the following questions for your consideration. The answers would be  
very helpful to us "back yard gasifier builders" who are nowhere close  
to being able to afford a commercially purchased gasifier. There are  
some 4,500 Members of the Woodgas List, and as nearly as I can figure,  
less than 1" have build their own gasifier that reliably produces  
"Engine Grade Gas." That is very bad odds. :-( Hopefully, your  
comments will give the 99% of the list some insights into  
gasification, and help us from going on "fools errands", where we have  
no hope of getting something to work.

1: FUEL SIZE
The "Engine Grade Gas"(EGG) successes we see on this list seem to fall  
into two categories:
A: Those who use chunkwood fuel (such as Wayne Keith, Mike Larosa,  
Powerhearth, Vesa Mikkonen)
B: Those who have instrumented systems and do extensive testing and  
utilize "on line controls."
C: Chip fueled gasifier systems, such as Greg Manning's system. Greg  
has reported extensively on the use of screened wood chips being used  
in his "Heating Grade Gas" (HGG) system, but I am not sure if his  
system has produced EGG on a continuous basis. (Perhaps Greg could  
clarify whether or not his system will produce EGG on a consistent  
basis.)

While chunkfuel is the preferred fuel size, what would you suggest as  
the minimum size of fuel that teh "Home Gasifier Builder" should  
consider, to avoid major problems, and to have some reasonable  
expectation of success?

More specifically, what do you feel is the likelihood, and the  
circumstances under which a Woodgas List Member could build an EGG  
gasifier that ran reasonably well using screened wood chips that were  
available free from a Tree Surgeon, or right-of-way clearing Contractor?

2: AIR LEAKAGE
Would you have any suggestions on the best way to test for leaks, and  
to diagnose the probable area of leakage?  Would you have any  
suggestions on the amount of air leakage that would be acceptable?

3: TESTING and TUNING
Would you have any guidelines or suggestions for testing and  
evaluating a home built gasifier, such as:
3:1 What is a good way to measure tar content of gas?
3:2 With the test you suggest, is there any way quantify it, so that  
teh Builder would know if the tar content is low enough to allow a  
typical engine to run for a minimum of say 1,000 hours?
3:3 What would you recommend as the minimum requirement for test  
equipment for the home builder?
3:4 What tests would you suggest?
3:5 When designing and building a gasifier, what are the minimum  
provisions that the Back Yard Builder should make for testing and  
tuning? (eg, Viewports, temperature and pressure measuring points, etc)

Your helpful comments will be very much appreciated, and will go a  
long way to preventing Home Gasifier Builders from wasting time on  
gasifier and fuel combinations that are very likely to fail.

Thanks!

Kevin


Quoting Bill Klein <Bill_Klein at Powerhearth.com>:

> Hi, Kevin.
>
> Your question of feedstock size is rather interesting and one to which I can
> easily relate. That said, I hope the following provides a little bit of
> insight and doesn't aggravate the experts on this list.
>
> Before we ship our units, they undergo several tests.
>
> Test 1 is a 24 hour non stop test in which we push all of the limits. Said
> differently, we look for the weaknesses, leaks, etc.
> Test 2 is another 24 hour non stop test. It provides us with systems
> calibration.
> Test 3 is a 100 hour non stop test. During this period, all of the necessary
> data points are established for our automation and management system.
>
> Why am I describing an important phase of our unit fabrication, truncated as
> the description may be?
>
> I wanted to point out the importance of properly sized feedstock for, if
> there is a screw up with gas flow or aglomeration, the test is stopped and
> rerun.
>
> When we test, depending upon the customer's intended feedstock, we test and
> evaluate the gas from at least three feedstocks, one of which is a close
> approximation of that which the customer will use. Size of the feedstock is
> critical unless one really enjoys non stop runs, grumpy technicians and
> buckets of coffee.
>
> Pellets: We won't use them. They are seldom uniform (cross sectionally) in
> moisture content and generally sealed. With heat, they shatter
> magnificently, leaving a pile of sawdust. The exception seems to be
> pelletized switchgrass: a great feedstock.
>
> The chip size we like resembles an Oreo cookie, squared. As an approximation
> it works to gauge sizes. Overall length or width uniformity doesn't seem to
> be as critical as thickness. Still, there is a lot of flexibility and
> smaller sizes are okay to integrate, as an exception, not the rule.
> Gasifiers are not stoics. Built properly, they have some versatility, but
> you have to make friends with your unit before you learn her secrets. Then
> you merely have to respect them. .
>
> Charcoal briquettes as a feedstock too often creates a huge problem as they
> plug the grate with compacted fines.
>
> The best and my most favorite feedstock is still chunks. 2x4x4 - or
> briquettes of almost anything.
>
> Kevin, I would have gladly answered earlier, but you posted hours after my
> bedtime. We old folks need our beauty sleep.
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Bill Klein
> 3i
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Any experience with Stak Properties 10K
> gasifier?
>
>
> Dear Bill
>
> Quoting Bill Klein <Bill_Klein at Powerhearth.com>:
>
>> To underscore Greg's email, repeating what I was taught, "The
>> quality of the gas is in direct proportion to the quality of the
>> char." Larger feedstock makes great char!
>
> # OK!! Do you think one can make "Engine Grade Gas" using:
> 1: Wood pellets, 1/4" diameter, 1/4" to 1/2" long?
> 2: Wood chips screened to -1/4", +1/8"?
> 3: Wood chips screened to -1/2",+ 1/4"?
> 4: Wood chips screened to -1", + 1/2"?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kevin
>>
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Bill Klein
>> 3i
>>
>> http://www.3iAlternativePower.com
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message -----
>>   From: Greg Manning
>>   To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>   Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:40 PM
>>   Subject: Re: [Gasification] Any experience with Stak Properties
>> 10K gasifier?
>>
>>
>>   Pete, (and list)
>>
>>   What, and how big, are the fuel chunks ?
>>
>>   most gasifiers do NOT like wood chips, or really "fine" fuel, the
>> interstitial space the gasifier is designed to run with, is
>> generally much larger than that of chips or fine feedstock, using
>> the correct sized fuel, in-turn, lowers the reaction core
>> temperature, thus creating more, and more consistant amounts, of CO.
>> (the main flamable gas, in woodgas). (H2 and CH4 are simply "bonus"
>> gases.....)
>>
>>   Greg Manning.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Pete & Sheri
>> <spaco at baldwin-telecom.net> wrote:
>>
>>     Has anyone here had any experience running an engine using the
>> Stak Properties 10K gasifier?
>>
>>
>>
>>     They tell me that the JXQ-10 gasifier is a forerunner to this
>> machine. I have one of those.  I?d like to be able to correspond
>> with others who have this style of machine.  Currently I am having
>> mixed results getting a steady flow of good gas to run my   6.5 KW
>> Onan 1800 rpm genset from it.  On Saturday, I got it to deliver
>> about 3.8 kw for about 12 minutes, but then the quality of the gas
>> deteriorated.  On Sunday a similar test produced worse results, but
>> over about a one hour period, with gas quality again deteriorating
>> as the test went proceded.
>>
>>       I am not writing to waste the time of senior members here by
>> asking them to troubleshoot my problems, without enough info.  Just
>> want to show what kind of issues I have for those who might be
>> involved with similar equipment.
>>
>>       My goals are to: 1. See how much power I can squeeze out of
>> the generator for an extended period of time with this gas source,
>> and 2. To get some actual experience making woodgas.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Looking back over my videos and notes, I can see a dozen or two
>> things that I could do better next time.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Pete Stanaitis
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   --
>>    Regards,
>>
>>   Greg Manning,
>>   Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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