[Gasification] Producer gas without nitrogen

Sun Mar 18 18:54:25 CDT 2012

Dear Dr.A.Karve
Why not use C02  partical oxidation with reuse of part of engine gas this
was well proved by Kali gasififier using charcoal .For mor details  yiu can
see here in this list earlier old  posts about the same for more details
 .Anothere possiblitity is  HHO  brown gas or watergas rom  eletrolise of
water , this also Dr .Reed  gave  more information  aboute the same here in
this list that 1 l of water can give  around  20 ll of HHO gas  or
watergas  http://www.watergasvideos.com/

Some innovations can be done in this regard

Yours truely

Pannirselvam .P.V

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Viswanathan KS <viswanathanks at gmail.com>wrote:

> Why not use oxygen enriched air, with oxygen content of say 30% which is
> easy to produce in membrane systems.
>
> http://www.mtrinc.com/oxygen-enriched_air.html
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That is a VERY interesting reply from a lurker.. :)
>>
>> Thank you very much Charles.,
>>
>> Tom, can you give us an update ?  (I understand that some of your work
>> is confidential, so if you cannot, I understand).
>>
>> Greg Manning
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Charles Frame <cframe at netnet.net> wrote:
>> > I have "lurked" on this list for many years--I suppose it's now time to
>> come
>> > out of the closet. I built my first working gasifier in 1983 after
>> reading
>> > the Mother Earth News article on their wood-gas truck. I would guess
>> that
>> > most of the "old-timers" who built gasifiers took their inpiration from
>> that
>> > article also.
>> > Back then, I had read a little about molecular sieves, but in those
>> > pre-Internet days information was hard to find. I had always been
>> curious
>> > about how such a low-BTU gas, composed of 65% Nitrogen, and the rest
>> Carbon
>> > Monoxide, and to a much lesser degree Hydrogen, traces of CH4 (methane)
>> and
>> > un-converted CO2 could even power an IC engine AT ALL!! Considering that
>> > cleaned and filtered wood gas, as it enters the carbeuretor is mixed yet
>> > AGAIN with atmospheric air containing about 78% Nitrogen in about a
>> 1--1.1
>> > ratio--before being burned in the cylinder combustion chambers, the
>> > combustible portion of wood gas is quite small. The huge quantities of
>> > Nitrogen just "go along for the ride" and contribute NOTHING (so far as
>> I am
>> > aware!) But since my old Allis-Chalmers WD-45 4 cylinder tractor, and a
>> > single-cylinder 13HP electrical generator ran reasonably well on wood
>> gas I
>> > became a believer.
>> > I knew 30 years ago that there obviously were industrial processes for
>> > separation of Nitrogen from Oxygen. Every time I exchanged Oxygen
>> cylinders
>> > on my welding rig took a big bite out of my budget, so I assumed that
>> the
>> > separation process must be prohibitively expensive--especially for
>> putzing
>> > around making wood gas.
>> >
>> > I read with much interest an article in Popular Science circa
>> mid-to-late
>> > 1980's about Tom Reed's project in Colorado with an oxygen-injected
>> > stratified gasifier. I always wondered what became of that project, but
>> > suspected that the cost of, and amount of, oxygen required kept the
>> project
>> > from ever being commercialized. (I know that Dr. Reed still contributes
>> > periodically to this list, so perhaps many folks would be grateful for a
>> > historical update on that project. ;-))
>> >
>> > I haven't done much with gasification for the past 25 years. It was
>> just a
>> > fun hobby that gave way to more important matters--like earning a
>> living!
>> > But I can't help but feel that with all the improvements and
>> breakthroughs
>> > in materials science, micro-controller sensors and actuators, catalysts,
>> > etc. that gasification could become a viable alternative energy option
>> IF
>> > the Nitrogen problem could be solved.
>> >
>> > I have a gut feeling that feeding pure oxygen into a gasifier to produce
>> > nitrogen-free gas might be a net-energy loser. On the other hand,
>> instead of
>> > cumbusting wood-gas in an IC engine using atmospheric air containing 78%
>> > nitrogen, why not inject pure oxygen into the carbeuretor mixer with the
>> > wood gas? Instead of a ratio of woodgas to air of 1:1.1 would be ratio
>> not
>> > change to 5:1 woodgas to pure oxygen? Without all the nitrogen
>> dilution, it
>> > seems that the cumbustible mixture in the cylinder would contain much
>> more
>> > energy and deliver that much greater a force to the piston\'s
>> down-stroke.
>> > It seems that an on-board oxygen generator with reserve storage could
>> then
>> > scavenge some power from the vehicle engine to continuously provide the
>> > oxygen quantities required. Could oxygen generators ever be made in such
>> > mass quantities as to be cost-effective used in this way?
>> >
>> > Perhaps a greatly modified engine would be required to use oxygen with
>> > woodgas. I've always been disturbed by how it is physically possible
>> for a
>> > virtually un-modified IC engine to burn wood gas and deliver ONLY a
>> 50---60%
>> > power de-rating burning woodgas at 150BTU/ft(cubic)as opposed to say,
>> > Propane at 1000BTU/ft (cubic) or Natural Gas at 1200BTU/ft(cubic)? Does
>> this
>> > mean that an ideal fuel for an IC engine need only have
>> 300BTU/ft(cubic) to
>> > deliver power at 100%, and therefore gasoline, propane, and natural gas
>> are
>> > all way too BTU-rich to be using as engine fuels?
>> >
>> > I've read that after fuel is combusted in an IC engine that only 8--12%
>> of
>> > the energy in the fuel actually propels the vehicle due to mechanical
>> losses
>> > in the engine itself, and in the drive train to the wheels. Does this
>> mean
>> > that such mechanical losses are unavoidable and would be the same even
>> if
>> > the prime mover was an electric motor? Or does it mean that the step at
>> > which fuel is converted into mechanical energy through combustion in the
>> > engine is a huge energy loser?
>> >
>> > I've also read that most of the "nasty" by-products in automotive
>> exhaust
>> > have the word "nitrous" in them. Is that because the combustion air
>> contains
>> > 78% (benign) Nitrogen which becomes fouled in the presence of the
>> combustion
>> > of fuel and oxygen?
>> >
>> > O.K. I think I just thought of the answer to why one can't use 100%
>> oxygen
>> > to fuel an IC engine using conventional fuels. My cutting torch,
>> because of
>> > the 100% oxygen mixed with acetylene can generate temps up to 7000F. I
>> can
>> > guess an IC engine would run so hot that it would seize up in no
>> time--maybe
>> > even melt. Bad idea! But then, maybe with BTU-poor woodgas, that
>> wouldn't be
>> > a problem? Enough rambling....
>> >
>> > To anyone who's read this far, I apologize if I've wasted your time. I
>> just
>> > have questions and speculations that I've never seen any good answers
>> to. To
>> > anyone who can take the time to enlighten me, either on- or off-list
>> I'd be
>> > most grateful.
>> >
>> > Chuck Frame
>> > c/o Yonsei University
>> > YSKLI
>> > Seoul, KOREA Quoting Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Dear Friends,
>> >> thanks for enlightening me about molecular sieves. From the information
>> >> received from members of the gasification and pyrolysis group, it
>> appears
>> >> to be within the realm of possibility to produce pyrolysis gas without
>> >> nitrogen. This opens up the possibility of bottling nitrogen free
>> producer
>> >> gas and using it as automotive fuel. Even a TLUD stove would burn much
>> >> better if supplied with primary air without nitrogen.
>> >> Yours
>> >> A.D.Karve
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ***
>> >> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> (ARTI)
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Gasification mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Regards,
>>
>> Greg Manning,
>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>

--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120318/2ab9eb73/attachment.html>