[Gasification] Producer gas. Dry cleaning.

Oscar Jimenez oscar at cubaenergia.cu
Fri Feb 1 11:47:40 CST 2013


Dear Tom and the list.

 

Thank you very much for the comment.

It is just the point you highlighted “  It don’t know of an operating system
that uses dolomite at either the industrial or small scale”, which is the
one that is my main concern. I will try to furthering a little bit on this
issue. Thanks a lot once again.

 

Kindest regards.

 

Oscar.

 

 

 

De: Tom Miles [mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com] 
Enviado el: Friday, February 01, 2013 12:04 PM
Para: oscar at cubaenergia.cu; 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification'; a31ford at gmail.com
Asunto: RE: [Gasification] Producer gas. Dry cleaning.

 

Oscar,


There is a lot of literature on the use of dolomite in gasification,
primarily of use in fluidized beds. Much of that work has been done since
the 1980s by researchers at the University in Zaragoza, Spain. Researchers
and developers in Sweden (Studsvik, Chalmers, Royal Institute etc.) had
systems based on reforming gas in a secondary fluidized bed for engines and
syngas. It seems to me that there has been some more recent work using
dolomite in Europe and the US. It don’t know of an operating system that
uses dolomite at either the industrial or small scale. 

 

Tom    

 

From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On
Behalf Of Oscar Jimenez
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 6:39 AM
To: a31ford at gmail.com; 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Producer gas. Dry cleaning.

 

Dear Greg and the list.

 

Thank you very much for feeding back your comments on producer gas dry
cleaning.

My interest stems from a 500 kWe gasifier which is going to be installed in
Isla de la Juventud.

Initially, the commercial offer included scrubbing producer gas with water,
lately the possibility of producer gas dry cleaning, using dolomite, showed
up. I started looking for a deeper insight on this issue and found not much,
mostly from the point of view of its practical and sustained operation and
experience on this field. 

It gather my attention the fact that, as a catalyst, nothing was told so
far, about the dolomite generation condition. I am supposing that some
process for generating the dolomite should be in practice. To me, producer
gas dry cleaning is a good option considering that not liquid waste would be
exiting from the system.

As far as I could learn, the dolomite, briefly stated, should be a powder
which is introduced in the producer gas flowing stream. Afterwards the
dolomite would be separated/filtered. Dolomite operating conditions in the
gasification process and its generation/reusing issue, has not been clear
yet, to me.

Thanking you one more time for kindly responding to my request.

 

Kindest regards.

 

Oscar.

 

 

De: Greg Manning [mailto:a31ford at gmail.com] 
Enviado el: Thursday, January 31, 2013 4:55 PM
Para: oscar at cubaenergia.cu; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Asunto: Re: [Gasification] Producer gas. Dry cleaning.

 

Greetings Oscar, and list.

 

Dolomite is "Dolomitic Lime" (Limestone) we have great pits here in
Manitoba, where it is mined. I have some samples of it from old experiments.

 

you are looking for thin slabs with the "veins" in them, if it's just white
rock, it's useless.

 

You can crush the veins into small rocks about the size of coffee beans
(remove the dust and fines from the crushing), and use this in a box that is
in the outlet flow.

 

The dolomite has to be HOT to do it's job. > 500° F

 

Greg

 

 

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Oscar Jimenez <oscar at cubaenergia.cu> wrote:

Dear All.

Just recently I knew about the possibility of producer gas dry cleaning,
using " dolomite " on commercial basis. As far as I know the dolomite acts
as catalyst, getting the producer gas free of tar. The principle seems to be
rather well known, at least, such effect was known long ago. However I would
like to precise how commercial is it.
Comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanking you in advance.

Kindest regards.

Oscar.


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] En
nombre de jim mason
Enviado el: Thursday, January 31, 2013 2:05 AM
Para: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Asunto: Re: [Gasification] Spanner

i haven't seen one in person, but when we did the workshop in germany
they were highly spoken of and considered one of the most
accomplished.  the pictures have always looked impressive and the
company seems with lots of history and talent.  the price point seems
tolerable in germany, but a challenge for elsewhere.

j



On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
> Thanks Phil. I think that would be the first one in Canada unless Borealis
> has a demo somewhere
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
On
> Behalf Of Phil Marsh
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:46 AM
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Spanner
>
> Tom:
>
> You might want to check with the BC Bioenergy Network (Michael Weedon). I
> believe they have chosen the Spanner system for a small scale test at a
> community in Northern BC.
>
> Phil Marsh
> Marshbros.
> 250 569-7858 <tel:250%20569-7858> 
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
On
> Behalf Of Tom Miles
> Sent: January-30-13 12:03 AM
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Spanner
>
> Fredrik,
>
> It's good to hear from you. And many thanks for the report on the Spanner.
>
> I have found some reports on the performance of the Spanner gasifiers. If
> the it operates reliably then it might be worthwhile considering. It is
> encouraging to hear that so many are in use. University of North Dakota
> (EERC) developed a 100 kWe gasifier with a reactor that sounds very
similar
> in concept to the Spanner. It seemed to work well on wood. They built a
> couple of them but the economics were not favorable so I do not think they
> are being used.
>
> I have seen that the 30 kWe Spanner gasifier is about EUR 130,000 and the
40
> kWe/100 kWth unit is about EUR 140,000 (USD 189,000). If you add another
EUR
> 70,000 (USD 95,000) for the feed system, heat distribution, and switchgear
> then it is a fairly expensive heater and generator at about EUR 210,000
(USD
> 284,000).
>
> We have a similar situation in most of the US where the only real savings
is
> by not consuming from the grid. Even through there are public incentives
for
> small generators the utilities discourage small generation through high
> connection costs and other high service fees.
>
> The economics are favorable in the remote villages in Alaska and British
> Columbia. The Alaskan sawmill where we installed a 20 kWe  gasifier pays
> about EUR 496/kWe (USD 670/MWh) for diesel generated power. We estimated
> that we could generate power with the gasifier for about EUR 296/kWh (USD
> 400/kWh). A consumer in a larger town pays about EUR 326/kWh (USD
440/kWh).
> We estimated that we could generate 1 MWe power for about EUR 178 (USD
> 240/kWh) with public subsidy for a small (2 MWe) steam system but
gasifiers
> at the 2 MWe scale were too expensive.
>
> All  the best,
>
> Tom
>
>
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--



Jim Mason
Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com
Current Projects:
   - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com
   - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: www.escapefromberkeley.com
   - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs
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http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com

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