[Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water

Thu Jan 31 21:28:10 CST 2013

Reciprocating steam engines don't need superheating as much as a  
turbine, but they still increase in efficiency as temperature and  
pressure  go up into the range of material failure.   The cyclone  
separator does a pretty good job of keeping the tar out of the  
engines.  Overall, small steam engines are also a nightmare for  
maintenance.  In WW II, when the railways still ran on steam and the  
technology was well known, people still converted cars to wood gas,  
even without a good separator.  Tearing it down for cleaning every  
5,000 miles and dealing with a gasifier and it's fuel fussiness was  
considered less trouble and danger than a boiler and its complications.

Bob Stuart

On 31-Jan-13, at 9:07 PM, stuart mather wrote:

> Ok, steam turbines under 250 hp aren't efficient and a turbine  
> needs super heated steam. But a reciprocating steam engine is  
> efficient and doesn't need superheated steam, so aren't these  
> better than trying to deal with tar in an internal combustion engine?
> Stuart.
>
> From: stuart mather <kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification  
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Friday, 1 February 2013 12:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water
>
> I'm just curious why syngas is ever deliberately burnt in an  
> internal combustion engine in a deliberate setup when surely it  
> would completely sidestep the tar/acids corrosion/disposal issue if  
> the heat was just used to power a steam turbine driven generator?  
> Sorry if it's a daft question.
> Stuart.
>
>
> From: Robert Fairchild <solarbobky at yahoo.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification  
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Friday, 1 February 2013 11:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water
>
> This might be a job for mushrooms. Really. Filter the water through  
> straw or woodchips then innoculate with the appropriate fungus.  
> It's known as mycoremediation. Paul Stamets is the expert.
> See:
> http://www.realitysandwich.com/mycoremediation_and_oil_spills
> http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/research/reports/fullreports/464.1.pdf
>  Bob
>
> --- On Thu, 1/31/13, linvent at aol.com <linvent at aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: linvent at aol.com <linvent at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7:  
> scrubber water
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Date: Thursday, January 31, 2013, 8:15 PM
>
> And some of the gasifiers in India simply dump it in ponds. One  
> very well funded group set up large tanks ala biodigesters, that  
> didn't work. This is the same group that spent $200 mm on an  
> Australian  MSW to power gasifier that was scrapped.  It is not  
> acceptable to dump the produced water in any normal waste water  
> treatment system. Even in "clean" gasifier gas the moisture content  
> going to the engine will bring organic acids and other compounds  
> that will reduce the lifetime and the power output of the engine.  
> There are effective water treatment systems available, and after  
> years of trying a variety of options, we have landed on ones that  
> work well and are relatively inexpensive to construct and operate.  
> If you look at the cost of a coal gasifier water treatment plant,  
> it is a significant investment.
>
> Sincerely,
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Coote <dccoote at mira.net>
> To: gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 31, 2013 5:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 29, Issue 7:  
> scrubber water
>
> How were they handling the scrubber water, Tom? A colleague visited a
> reasonable size gasifier in Europe where the water was stored in a  
> tank.
> Once this tank was full their immediate option was to install another
> tank. Not ideal!
>
> Waste disposal is becoming increasingly expensive in Australia. This
> would increase the cost of the power.
>
> Regards
>
> David
>
> On 1/02/2013 7:00 AM, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org  
> wrote:
> > ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013
> > 09:32:11 -0800 From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> To:  
> "'Discussion
> > of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
> > <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> Subject: Re: [Gasification]
> > Power Pallet Message-ID: <00f201cdffd8$e7c8ae80$b75a0b80 
> $@trmiles.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >> >yes, but remember that all that run these fuels to date are  
> doing so by
> >>
> > tolerating a dirty gas non tar solving reactor, and fighting the  
> tar problem
> > in the filtering.  on the low tech end this is nearly always a water
> > scrubbing system, which really just>moves the toxic problem  
> somewhere else,
> > and actual real world running is highly unattractive.  yes, it  
> will work for
> > the demo, but the ongoing issues with the bongwater cofferdam  
> challenges
> > health, regulatory and general pleasurable>concerns.
> >
> > Not so fast. You can't write off "tar making" gasifiers  
> completely. While
> > your observation may be true for hundreds of low cost gasifiers  
> now in use,
> > in the last five years I have seen three small scale gas cleaning  
> systems
> > using wet scrubbers that would pass California air quality and  
> safety
> > regulations. One is produced commercially and was demonstrated at  
> the 300
> > kWe scale. Another was demonstrated at 300 KWe and used on a 1  
> MWe system.
> > One was demonstrated on a 100 kWe downdraft gasifier generating  
> 100 kWe from
> > grass seed screenings. I know of another two in development for  
> the 40 kWe
> > scale. (I also know of at least one that has failed miserably.)
> >
> > Tar making gasifiers may be a solution for some very difficult  
> but abundant
> > fuel like rice husks and agricultural residues if the tars can be  
> managed
> > and destroyed acceptably.
> >
> > Tom
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/ 
> gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/ 
> gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/ 
> gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/ 
> gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/ 
> gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130131/b8da89d8/attachment.html>