[Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
KARUTURI VENKATA NARAYANA
sreemetals at yahoo.co.in
Fri Nov 29 07:33:10 CST 2013
Fluidized bed gasification will not produce good quality gas because of the low bed temperature. For powder/small size bio mass, entrained flow gasification is idle. In entrain flow gasification temperatures are >1200 Celsius.
K V Narayana
On Friday, 29 November 2013 12:31 AM, "gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org" <gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (Lloyd Helferty)
2. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (Doug)
3. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (Carefreeland at aol.com)
4. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (Kevin C)
5. Re: Fluidised Bed Reactor (GFWHELL at aol.com)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:49:54 -0500
From: Lloyd Helferty <lhelferty at sympatico.ca>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Cc: oliverg1 at visiondatasystems.co.za
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP77B0601CCCACFF1C89E29AC0EF0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
George and Doug,
Try: Syngas International, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada [Sorry, but I
don't have a website.]
I was once told that they have a "fluidized bed gasifier". Except for
them, I have not really heard of the technology (most Fluidized Bed
systems are Pyrolysis systems [designed to make liquids] and not gasifiers).
I also knew of EnergyQuest Inc from Nevada, but the last time I
checked, their website was for sale.
Perhaps these guys have something?
www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/ <http://www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/>
Regards,
Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
www.biochar-consulting.ca
48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
905-707-8754
CELL: 647-886-8754
Skype: lloyd.helferty
Steering Committee coordinator
Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
Organizing team member, 2013 N/A Biochar Symposium:
www.carbon-negative.us/symposium
Member of the Don Watershed Regeneration Council (DWRC)
Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475
Advisory Committee Member, IBI
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675
http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario
http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/
http://www.biocharontario.ca
www.biochar.ca
"Technology is only a tool. Sustainability is determined not by the the individual technologies, but rather how -- and even whether -- we decide to use them."
- Lloyd Helferty
On 2013-11-21 8:55 PM, Tom Reed wrote:
> Dear All:
>
> For a moment I thought we were talking about water beds being gasified...
>
> Not a pretty picture!
>
> Tom Reed
>
> Thomas B Reed
> 280 Hardwick Rd
> Barre, MA 01005
> 508 353 7841
>
>> On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Doug <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
>>
>> Can any one offer George a lead on who might be able to supply him with a small Fluidized bed Gasifier please?
>> Doug Williams,
>> Fluidyne.
>>
>>
>> Hi George,
>>
>> I don't follow Fluidized bed gasification technology, so have sent your request to the Gasification List where you may be pointed in the right direction.
>> Regards,
>> Doug Williams,
>> Fluidyne.
<snip>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 16:23:21 +1300
From: Doug <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>
To: <lhelferty at sympatico.ca>
Cc: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <20131128162321.7135ec8d1a1205455fe1b36b at orcon.net.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Lloyd, Ling He, and Gasification Colleagues,
I appreciate your interest in the request from George which I hope he is following up from your kind replies. One can only guess at the size of his needs bearing in mind these are usually quite big systems. Maybe George can follow up and advise us of exactly what he wants one for, so appropriate advise can be given.
Fluidized beds certainly qualify as Pyrolysis systems, but a lot of effort has been expended in the hope they could be kidded into creating a gas free of condensible hydrocarbons. They can certainly make a large volume of gas fast, but never without extensive gas cleaning. An obvious choice is to develop and maximise their condensate production for further processing into liquid fuels and chemical feed stock, and use the gas straight into a boiler. Having said that, developers promoting this process seem to have a high turnover rate, and the same gear turns up under another name once all the hype and interest dies on the originating project.
Regards,
Doug Williams,
Fluidyne.
> George and Doug,
>
> Try: Syngas International, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada [Sorry, but I
> don't have a website.]
> I was once told that they have a "fluidized bed gasifier". Except for
> them, I have not really heard of the technology (most Fluidized Bed
> systems are Pyrolysis systems [designed to make liquids] and not gasifiers).
> I also knew of EnergyQuest Inc from Nevada, but the last time I
> checked, their website was for sale.
>
> Perhaps these guys have something?
> www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/ <http://www.eng.uwo.ca/icfar/>
>
>
> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
> Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
> www.biochar-consulting.ca
> 48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
> 905-707-8754
> CELL: 647-886-8754
> Skype: lloyd.helferty
> Steering Committee coordinator
> Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
> President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
> National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
> Organizing team member, 2013 N/A Biochar Symposium:
> www.carbon-negative.us/symposium
> Member of the Don Watershed Regeneration Council (DWRC)
> Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475
> Advisory Committee Member, IBI
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675
> http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario
> http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/
> http://www.biocharontario.ca
> www.biochar.ca
>
> "Technology is only a tool. Sustainability is determined not by the the individual technologies, but rather how -- and even whether -- we decide to use them."
> - Lloyd Helferty
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:55:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Carefreeland at aol.com
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org, lhelferty at sympatico.ca
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <89da0.3dfc0c85.3fc850e6 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Doug and all,
Would some sort of a high temp molecular cracker be a good companion
to create a quality gas from a fluidised bed? Possibly some steam and / or
preheated air.involved? Seems if you wrapped the exhaust back through the
hottest part of the flame in a reactor tube this can be accomplished.
Sorry but I have been kinda outta the loop for a while.
Dan Dimiduk
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:54:25 -0800
From: Kevin C <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <20131128065425.20907g5gkfwm0jkx at webmail.uniserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
Dear Dan
Quoting Carefreeland at aol.com:
> Doug and all,
> Would some sort of a high temp molecular cracker be a good companion
> to create a quality gas from a fluidised bed? Possibly some steam and / or
> preheated air.involved? Seems if you wrapped the exhaust back through the
> hottest part of the flame in a reactor tube this can be accomplished.
> Sorry but I have been kinda outta the loop for a while.
# Start by appreciating the two Fundamental Rules of Thermodynamics
and Thermo Chemistry:
Fundamental Rule #1: You can't get something for nothing
Fundamental Rule #2: As a matter of fact, you can't even break even.
For example, the reaction
C + O2 --> CO2 (`1)
is strongly exothermic, and gives off about 14,000 BTU per pound of
carbon that is oxidized.
If there was insufficient O2, and the C was only burned to CO, as follows:
C + 1/2O2 --> CO (2)
then only abut 4,000 BTU would be released per pound of carbon.
If we wanted to reverse reaction #1, we would have to put back 14,000 BTU/Lb C
OR, in the case of a gasifier, where the reaction
CO2 + C --> 2 CO (3)
is desired, we would have to "put back" energy as follows:
14,000 + 0 --> 2x4,000 + "X"
14,000 --> 8,000 + "X"
and it is obvious that "X" is 6,000 BTU, in order to respect
Fundamental Rule #1
"Molecular Crackers" and "Catalysts" do indeed work, but only when the
fundamental need to add or remove energy from a reaction is respected.
As long as the "fundamental need for an energy balance" is respected,
then many things are possible.
Best wishes,
Kevin
>
> Dan Dimiduk
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:51:31 -0500 (EST)
From: GFWHELL at aol.com
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Fluidised Bed Reactor
Message-ID: <e76d6.15eb8bab.3fc8c083 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kevin .
What sort of reaction could be expected if we applied the high temperature
exhaust from an IC engine into a "reactor" containing biomass and at the
same time reheated the "reactor" using some of the volatile vapors so
produced? perhaps we could also ionize the vapors produced within the reactor to
above 5000 deg. which should yield a relatively low tar stream of gas
.some of which could fuel the IC engine.
This does not compromise the laws of Thermodynamics.
GF
In a message dated 11/28/2013 9:55:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
kchisholm at ca.inter.net writes:
Dear Dan
Quoting Carefreeland at aol.com:
> Doug and all,
> Would some sort of a high temp molecular cracker be a good companion
> to create a quality gas from a fluidised bed? Possibly some steam and /
or
> preheated air .involved? Seems if you wrapped the exhaust back through
the
> hottest part of the flame in a reactor tube this can be accomplished.
> Sorry but I have been kinda outta the loop for a while.
# Start by appreciating the two Fundamental Rules of Thermodynamics
and Thermo Chemistry:
Fundamental Rule #1: You can't get something for nothing
Fundamental Rule #2: As a matter of fact, you can't even break even.
For example, the reaction
C + O2 --> CO2 (`1)
is strongly exothermic, and gives off about 14,000 BTU per pound of
carbon that is oxidized.
If there was insufficient O2, and the C was only burned to CO, as follows:
C + 1/2O2 --> CO (2)
then only abut 4,000 BTU would be released per pound of carbon.
If we wanted to reverse reaction #1, we would have to put back 14,000
BTU/Lb C
OR, in the case of a gasifier, where the reaction
CO2 + C --> 2 CO (3)
is desired, we would have to "put back" energy as follows:
14,000 + 0 --> 2x4,000 + "X"
14,000 --> 8,000 + "X"
and it is obvious that "X" is 6,000 BTU, in order to respect
Fundamental Rule #1
"Molecular Crackers" and "Catalysts" do indeed work, but only when the
fundamental need to add or remove energy from a reaction is respected.
As long as the "fundamental need for an energy balance" is respected,
then many things are possible.
Best wishes,
Kevin
>
> Dan Dimiduk
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End of Gasification Digest, Vol 39, Issue 10
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