RE: [Gasification] Karlsruhe Institute of Technology bioliq® pilot project

[linvent at aol.com]

 Tom,
	Thanks for the feedback. I understand the costs of pilot vs. developed plants,but the ratio here seems high. 
	There is a large coal to power gasifier plant being built in Mississippi by DOE and the Southern Companies to demonstrate clean coal operations and it has run into massive cost and time overruns and soured the community on clean coal costs. This may be the same type of influence over future plants where perceived costs are a major deterrent to considering gasification. Some of Kholsa's investments are also out there with the same aura. 
	There are areas which are still immune or at least for some time from the lowered oil and gas prices, but these will eventually matriculate through the energy matrix and affect projects that are based on replacing them. There are projects that can be based on input income, i.e., disposal fees that will survive however. 
	I look at the major oil companies that have the capability of constructing coal to liquid fuels plants at any time and haven't. I am of the opinion that in most cases, with exceptions for the Shell Indonesian GTL operations, they are well aware of the real value of their products, the political structure and vagaries of the pricing and are not willing to take risks of this magnitude. 
	During the Arab Oil Embargo days of the 70's, the US spent $68 billion on synfuels without producing a single commercial plant except for the Plains Gasification facility in North Dakota which still operates today. Congress got tired of pumping money into it (US Synfuels Corporation) and shut off the funding. 
	In New Mexico, there were a series of coal to methane gasification facilities planned with most of the major oil companies having their planned operations and they never came to pass. I can only imagine the amount of investment that would have been lost if they had. 
	
Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
Thermogenics Inc. 



-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>
To: linvent <linvent at aol.com>; gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>; erin <erin at trmiles.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 5, 2014 3:35 am
Subject: RE: [Gasification] Karlsruhe Institute of Technology bioliq® pilot project

  Tom,
 
You can say that any pilot project is pricey. If the intent is proof of concept then the costs won’t represent a commercial production facility. Even the first few plants will require some subsidy to compete with fossil fuels so it really depends on the long term vision of the public funding agencies. 
 
We have already seen some investors back out of a couple of biomass projects because of low cost shale gas. They were probably just in it to develop the project and would leave anyway. 
 
Tom Miles
 
From: linvent at aol.com [mailto:linvent at aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2014 10:35 AM
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org; erin at trmiles.com
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Karlsruhe Institute of Technology bioliq® pilot project
 
Rather pricey system for 1 ton/day yield. It only proves that with enough money, any process can be made to  work technically, but economically? There are much less expensive ways to do this. Wonder if there will be a #2 system. Going to get rough to put these deals together with the dropping crude oil pricing. 

Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor

Thermogenics Inc. 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Erin Rasmussen <erin at trmiles.com>
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thu, Dec 4, 2014 12:35 pm
Subject: [Gasification] Karlsruhe Institute of Technology bioliq® pilot project
This is a nice write-up of the Bioliq biomass to fuel project:

http://www.biologynews.net/archives/2014/12/01/bioliq_complete_process_chain_is_running.html

 

more from the Karlsuher Institut für Technologie web page:

http://www.kit.edu/kit/15985.php

 

And the bioliq project web site http://www.bioliq.de

 

Erin Rasmussen

 

TR Miles Technical Consultants Inc.   http://www.trmiles.com/

and BioEnergy Discussion Lists   http://www.bioenergylists.org/

erin at trmiles.com

 

 




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