[Gasification] Clean Air Regulation requirements imposed

Sat Jun 28 04:50:23 CDT 2014

 James,
	The price you stated for a dioxin test is just the analysis and does not include the technician's travel time, set up time and sampling time, per US costs.?
	There is a method of on-stream continuous measurement that will give analysis of all of the compounds presented in the standard you referenced that will also include fixed gases to almost any molecular weight.?
	I can't see how any bag or filter can be used to clean the gas.?

Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
Thermogenics Inc.?

-----Original Message-----
From: James Joyce <james at jamesjoyce.com.au>
To: gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Sat, Jun 28, 2014 12:23 am
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Clean Air Regulation requirements imposed

Thanks for your input Artem and Leland.  

Leland we are working from a source separated feedstock ... but of course no  
separation method is every perfect. As far as air toxics I think I will start  
with the argument that if we get below the detection limit for a given species  
when using good quality industrial analysers (not research lab instruments) then  
our job is done. 

On a related note we normally use CO as an operational performance indicator for  
all hydrocarbon derived compounds... in our systems it is by far the most  
prevalent residual gas species and in my experience is that is the last compound  
(apart from soot) to be oxidised completely in a biomass flue gas ... is that  
the experience shared by others ? 

One aspect we may have to face is questions about dioxins. We do all the right  
things to avoid formation in terms of feedstock selection and operating  
temperatures/residence times ... however we have not done actual measurements. I  
am told that Dioxin measurements are around $3000/analysis in Australia ... is  
that the case elsewhere ?     That makes performance data collection  
prohibitively expensive. What are others doing for Dioxin analysis ? 

Artem, bag filtering at 600 deg C is interesting ... it keeps you well above the  
Dioxin formation temperature range ... I could not see much detail on your site.  
Can you provide any more information on this ?  Are you referring to Cerafume  
bags like those described here:   http://www.albkleinco.com/cerafume-high-temperature-gas-filters/  

Regards, 

James 

-----Original Message----- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1 
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:50:23 +0200 
From: "Artem Filimonov - TVT" <artem at termoventiltecnica.com> 

Dear Sirs, 

It is a really interesting discussion. I haven?t written yet. But I want to  
share with all of you information regarding a fumes treatment part. As you can  
see in signature the company name we deal with fumes treatment units. We work  
mainly in renewable energy field such as gasification offering our systems to  
clean the fumes. This is our main archived goals: 

-     Bag filtering systems, emissions < 1mg/Nmc, flue gas flow temperature  600  
?C; 
-         A unique filtering system to DeDust ? DeNOx ? DeSOx, direct dedusting  
at temperature 350 - 400 Celsius degree; 
-         Heat recovery systems. 

 Please be free to contact me for any issue, 

Best regards, 
Artem Filimonov  
TVT Termoventiltecnica S.r.l. 
Via Lo Stradone, 7 
31050 Ponzano Veneto (TV) 
Tel  <tel:%2B39%200422%20609%20110> +39 0422 609 110 Fax  <tel:%2B%2039%200422%20612%20633>  
+ 39 0422 612 633  

Da: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] Per  
conto di linvent at aol.com 
Inviato: luned? 23 giugno 2014 0.35 
A: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org 
Oggetto: Re: [Gasification] Clean Air Regulation requirements imposed on Waste  
to Energy Plants 

            This standard is not uncommon and most of it is just verbiage to  
cover as many sources as possible. If below detection limit, or not in the input  
gas,  then it complies. The measurement is very expensive using standard US EPA  

methodologies, but there is equipment that can be used to detect below the  
standard methods of analysis and costs around the same cost as one comprehensive  
gas analysis, which could be 

$35-60k in US terms.  

            The best way to comply is to remove as many of the contaminants as  
possible before the fume incinerator or flare. I can go into more detail, and  
indeed there may be a very inexpensive way of complying 

if they would accept it, but I don't do it for free.  

Sincerely, 

Leland T. "Tom" Taylor 

Thermogenics Inc.  

-----Original Message----- 
From: James Joyce < <mailto:james at jamesjoyce.com.au> james at jamesjoyce.com.au> 
Sent: Sat, Jun 21, 2014 4:36 pm 
Subject: [Gasification] Clean Air Regulation requirements imposed on Waste to  
Energy Plants 

Some questions for the group. We have been asked to comply to the following  
regulation regarding operation of our thermal oxidiser. My questions are: 

1.       Can any technology anywhere in the world claim to comply to this  
regulation ?    For example 99.99% destruction efficiency means that 100 ppmw of  
say formaldehyde in your process off-gas has to be reduced below 0.01 ppmw,  
which I am sure is well below the detection limit of available detection  
devices.  How you demonstrate 99.9999% removal is another matter again. 

2.       How many pyrolysis plants are using the nuclear fission reactions that  
would be necessary to destroy the metals in their list ! 

3.       What work around are people using to deal with emissions regulations  
that appear impossible to comply with ? 

 ..... snipped 

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