[Gasification] time to Skype chat? (10-min.)

Sat May 17 20:25:48 CDT 2014

Kelly,
I guess you have sent this Email. to the wrong recipient,
My original Email seems to have been removed from this thread by some  one?
I have repeated my contribution below:
Technically, it is possible to salvage a considerable portion of the  waste 
heat which is normally discarded by any  I.C.Engine to assist in  the 
production of methane from hot CO2 in the presence of  biomass or any  other 
hydro carbon, The extra input of energy to assist the reaction can be in  the 
form of an electrical plasma which could be obtained from say a 100amp  
automotive alternator. There are other issues such as N2 removal from the fuel  
loop. This is the way it will go.

Sabatier reaction
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Sabatier  reaction or Sabatier process was discovered by the French 
chemist Paul Sabatier  in the 1910s. It involves the reaction of hydrogen with 
carbon dioxide at  elevated temperatures (optimally 300–400 °C) and 
pressures in the presence of a  nickel catalyst to produce methane and water. 
Optionally, ruthenium on alumina  (aluminum oxide) makes a more efficient 
catalyst. It is described by the  following exothermic reaction:

CO2 + 4 H2 + energy → CH4 + 2 H2O
∆H = −165.0 kJ/mol
(some initial  energy/heat is required to start the reaction)

GFWHELL

In a message dated 5/17/2014 11:16:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
kburnham at protonpowerbioenergy.com writes:

Not sure if I'm replying to Mark or Art here... 
We use electric resistance heaters to operate around 1000 C. 
Kelly 

From: Gasification  [mailto:_gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org_ 
(mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org) ] On Behalf  Of Art 
Krenzel
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2014 7:50 PM
To:  Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re:  [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + 
hydrogen ($1.75 per  gallon diesel-equivalent?)

Kelly, 

Thank you  for joining the discussion.

Two  additional quick questions - since it is a pyrolysis process without 
oxygen or  air, how do you generate the heat for the pyrolysis process?  What 
 temperature does the system operate at in the horizontal  mixer?

I look forward to your reply and  am sure many others on the list will have 
more questions regarding your  process as well.

Art Krenzel, P.E.
PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES
10505 NE  285th Street
Battle Ground, WA 98604

_360-666-1883_ (tel:360-666-1883)     voice

____________________________________

Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 22:38:02  -0700
From: _kburnham at protonpowerbioenergy.com_ 
(mailto:kburnham at protonpowerbioenergy.com) 
To: _gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org_ 
(mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org) 
Subject: Re:  [Gasification] Tennessee company - pyrolysis biochar + 
hydrogen ($1.75 per  gallon diesel-equivalent?) 
Hello  All,
Kelly Burnham with Proton Power here.  I'd be glad to contribute  where I 
can, and in response to Art's questions: 
'what  type of biomass',  we've tested over 50 different types of biomass. 
By  and large most woody or herbaceous biomass works fine up to about 45% 
MC.   
'gasification style' is hydrous  pyrolysis. No pure oxygen and no 
oxidization agents. Slight positive pressure  at discharge.  Horizontal anger. 
Hope this  helps.
Kelly B. 

On May  15, 2014 10:29 AM, "Tom Miles" <_tmiles at trmiles.com_ 
(mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com) >  wrote: 

All, 
I  have invited Dr. Sam Weaver and Kelly Burnham of Proton Power, to join 
this  discussion so that you can answer your questions directly or they can  
respond to your previous questions.  To review the thread to date see  the 
archives at 
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/2014-May/date.html 
Visit  the Proton Power website at http://www.protonpower.com/ 
After  several years of development Proton Power is working through  their  
first year of a 750 kWe scale up plant at Wampler’s Farm Sausage in Lenoir, 
 Tennessee. 
http://www.protonpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Wamplers-Case-Study.pd
f 
Tom  Miles 
T  R Miles Technical Consultants Inc. 
Portland,  OR 
_tmiles at trmiles.com_ (mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com)  
_www.trmiles.com_ (http://www.trmiles.com/)  
_www.gasifiiers.bioenergylists.org_ 
(http://www.gasifiiers.bioenergylists.org/)  

From: Gasification  [mailto:_gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org_ 
(mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org) ] On  Behalf Of Art 
Krenzel
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 11:47  PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and  gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee company -  pyrolysis biochar + 
hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon  diesel-equivalent?)

Rex, 

It is  always good to hear from you again.  I can always count on you to 
come  up with better, faster and cheaper ways to get things done.  $2/kg is  
considerably different than $12/kg for hydrogen  costs.

What  biomass feedstock and gasification style does PROTON POWER use to 
produce  such high hydrogen content syn gas?  I notice no nitrogen content in  
the syn gas so I presume they are using pure oxygen as the oxidizing agent.  
Is it pressurized as well?  I see the photo on their website  shows a 
horizontal "pug mill" style mixer which I assume is their gasifier  as well.

Good to hear from you  again.

Art 

>  From: _rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za_ (mailto:rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za) 
> To: _gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org_ 
(mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org) 
> Date: Thu,  15 May 2014 07:59:13 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Tennessee  company - pyrolysis biochar + 
hydrogen ($1.75 per gallon  diesel-equivalent?)
> 
> Art,
> 
> You are correct  about making hydrogen from methane particularly at the
> $4/MMBTU  level seen in the USA. However, this is only strictly true on 
large
>  scale. At small scale gasification is an order of magnitude cheaper  than
> steam methane reforming. When I made enquiries about a small  (75bpd)
> hydrotreater, I was given a rough cost of $10m with a  further 
approximately
> $8m for the SMR. Needless to say, I nearly  fell off my chair! Some of the
> issues were that the design of a  hydrogen plant is by its very nature
> expensive. Then there are  materials of construction - stainless steel. 
Then
> there are the  safety aspects that require as much instrumentation as a 
2000
> bpd  plant. One comment I got was "do they make hydrogen compressors that
>  small?".
> 
> Proton Power claim to have a process that produces  65% H2, 30% CO2 and 
5% CO
> starting at the 250kWe scale. It is a very  small step from there via
> pressure swing absorption to get 99.9%  hydrogen. PSA equipment does 
exist at
> small scale and they have the  compressors for compressing syngas. This
> should produce hydrogen at  the $2/kg level rather than the methane SMR 
route
> of $12/kg.
>  
> Kind regards
> Rex 
> 
> Dr. Karve,
>  
> Being able to technically generate hydrogen using incandescent  carbon in 
a
> water gas reaction does not make the process  economically competitive.
>  Typically, the use of incandescent  carbon is a batch, cyclic process 
which
> produces pulses of gases  which vary in purity over each cycle
> 
> Compare the economics  of using a batch feedstock which has a variable
> composition to one  which has a very pure, low cost feedstock (CH4) day in
> and day out.  As a process designer, you can readily see that even through
>  the chemistry works out to generate hydrogen using incandescent carbon,  
the
> day to day practicality of operating a multistage process with  such a
> variable feedstock is much more difficult and more  expensive.
> 
> Art,
> 
> You make a very valid  point, particularly on large scale equipment. 
However,
> down at small  scale, you cannot beat the competitiveness of gasification 
as
> a  hydrogen producer. It is an order of magnitude less than going the  SMR
> route using methane. 
> 
> 
> 
>  ---
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protection is active.
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> 
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