[Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars

Kamalesh Doshi kamaleshdoshi6 at gmail.com
Sun Apr 23 20:20:15 CDT 2017


Harrie Knoef,

Thanks for the information.

Yes, I am working with California University Merced campus. We are planning
to collect samples and send it to  Lab having GC for analysis of
gravimetric tars.

Do you have suggestions/guidance on sample collection protocols and
procedures?

Regards,

Kamalesh


On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:30 PM, <gasification-request at lists.
bioenergylists.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers (Paul Anderson)
>    2. Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST methodology (l)
>    3. Re: SPAM: Re:  Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
>       methodology (Tom Miles)
>    4. Analysis of Gravitation Tars (Kamalesh Doshi)
>    5. Re: SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers (Bj?rn Kuntze)
>    6. Re: Analysis of Gravitation Tars (Harrie Knoef)
>    7. Re: SPAM: Re:  Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
>       methodology (l)
>    8. Re: Analysis of Gravitation Tars (l)
>    9. Re: SPAM: Re: SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
>       methodology (Tom Miles)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:48:24 -0500
> From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> Message-ID: <0ed65e5a-4b28-ebc3-a4c9-39e89a3bcfee at ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Nicolo,
>
> What is the price for the 11 and 20 kwe units?  Asking for
> information.   I am not a likely purchaser.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 4/22/2017 5:18 PM, Cerni wrote:
> > Bjorn,
> >
> > that is them exactly, and of all twin fired I have seen they are by
> > far the best
> > looking back 120 years history  of the famous HKD Humboldt Kloeckner
> > Deutz German gasogen Patent. The same array and system has been
> > renewed and improved 7 times by dr ing J K Ferges, the core technology
> > was validated by DU PONT way back in time thru a thorough examination.
> > we have access to those data....
> >
> > best regards
> > Nico Cerni
> >
> > Inviato da iPad,
> > Nicolo Cerni
> > mobiloffice
> > 0039 340.830.67.97 pls sms me or skype nico_cerni
> >
> > Il giorno 19/apr/2017, alle ore 13:28, Bj?rn Kuntze
> > <kuntze at mastergas.de <mailto:kuntze at mastergas.de>> ha scritto:
> >
> >> Nico,
> >>
> >> I wonder whether you mentioned A.H.T. Pyrogas GmbH by the link that
> >> you posted ?www.pyrogas-gmbh.de <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de>??
> >>
> >> Very well-known in Germany through lots of projects since the later
> >> 80ies?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Bjorn
> >>
> >> *Von:*Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *Im Auftrag
> >> von *Nicol? Cerni
> >> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 18. April 2017 09:05
> >> *An:* Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> >> *Betreff:* Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> >>
> >> you are welcome Tom,
> >>
> >> only 4 manufacturers offer certified syngas with low tars ( < than 4
> >> mgr/nM3 )
> >>
> >> and only very few can process anything else other than strictly
> >> selected wood chips
> >>
> >> here is one we are proud to represent
> >>
> >> www.pyrogas-gmbh.de <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de>
> >>
> >> The package units you refer to as Spanner had a GM 5,7 motor for
> >> years that required
> >>
> >> complete replacement  after 3/4 years, now they use a new USA Made
> >>  CHP engine called Origin
> >>
> >> probably a labelled OEM Product we cannot  trace.
> >>
> >> our organic biomass gasifier AHT can process different wood waste
> >> types and organic matters
> >>
> >> such as chicken manure
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >> NC
> >>
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source
> =link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source
> =link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-04-18 0:26 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>>:
> >>
> >>     Thanks, Nicolo. It?s good to know about you.
> >>
> >>     I didn?t know there were that many manufacturers in Europe.
> >>
> >>     Tom
> >>
> >>     *From:*Gasification
> >>     [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>     <mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] *On
> >>     Behalf Of *Nicol? Cerni
> >>     *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 3:08 PM
> >>     *To:* Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >>     <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>     <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> >>     *Subject:* SPAM: Re: [Gasification] Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> >>
> >>     Hello
> >>
> >>     please see our versions
> >>
> >>     at www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com>
> >>
> >>     new addresses here below
> >>
> >>     we are shipping to you our sales docs
> >>
> >>     our prices are adjusted to local markets Levelized costs of energy
> >>
> >>     they range from 3.200 to 4.600 Euros x 1 Kwe installed Cogen set
> >>     power
> >>
> >>     we know all of the gasifiers you mentioned ( Volter is a Spanner
> >>     user )
> >>
> >>     we have another 12 manufacturers in Europe
> >>
> >>     regards
> >>
> >>     NC
> >>
> >>     <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_sourc
> e=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com
> >>     <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_sourc
> e=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >>     2017-04-17 23:31 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >>     <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>>:
> >>
> >>         At a wood energy conference in Alaska last week it occurred
> >>         to me that the number of small scale ?industrial? gasifiers
> >>         is growing. They are now available worldwide and there are
> >>         many reports of good customer service. Gasifiers that were
> >>         only available in Europe are now being installed in North
> >>         America.
> >>
> >>         Wood chip and pellet gasifiers in the 40-125 kWe range are
> >>         now running 7000 hours or more.
> >>
> >>         Some suppliers:
> >>
> >>         Spanner <http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/> ? 600 units
> >>
> >>         Volter <http://volter.fi/> ? 100 units
> >>
> >>         Holzenergie <http://www.holzenergie-wegscheid.de/?lang=EN> ?
> >>         60 units
> >>
> >>         Burkhardt
> >>         <http://burkhardt-energy.com/hp604/Wood-Gasifier-V-3-90.htm>
> >>         ? 100+ (wood pellets)
> >>
> >>         These units all have tight fuel requirements: pellets
> >>         (Burkhardt) or dry (13-15% MC), and properly sized fuel for
> >>         reliable operation. Some suppliers offer sizing and drying
> >>         equipment.
> >>
> >>         They are all expensive so they require applications where
> >>         there is high value for the heat and the power.
> >>
> >>         What has been the owner-operator experience of running these
> >>         systems?
> >>
> >>         Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>         _______________________________________________
> >>         Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>         to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >>         Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >>         <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >>         to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>         http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificati
> on_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >>         for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> >>         http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     --
> >>
> >>     /gradite i nostri  piu' distinti saluti, *atentamente*, best
> >>     regards, *freundliche Gr??e* , /?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >>     /Nico Cerni , /*N C A*(N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >>     industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >>     www.nico-cerni.com <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> ,
> >>     info at altair-international.com <mailto:info at altair-international.com
> >
> >>
> >>     Ph  +49.6151.62.73.229.78  und  PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >>     eintreten /
> >>
> >>     sales   +39 342.663.51.81 Customers +39 340 830.67.97 Home   +39
> >>     045 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder ) E fax +39 045.5113.187 -
> >>     *Overseas Extra CEE, *( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET please use
> >>     www.freeconferencecall.com <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> =
> >>     *Skype: nico_cerni* , all inquires to
> >>     http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
> >>     Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>     to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >>     Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >>     <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >>     to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>     http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificati
> on_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >>     for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> >>     http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> /gradite i nostri  piu' distinti saluti, *atentamente*, best regards,
> >> *freundliche Gr??e* , /?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >> /Nico Cerni , /*N C A*(N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >> industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >> www.nico-cerni.com <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> ,
> >> info at altair-international.com <mailto:info at altair-international.com>
> >>
> >> Ph  +49.6151.62.73.229.78  und  PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >> eintreten /
> >>
> >> sales   +39 342.663.51.81 Customers +39 340 830.67.97 Home +39 045
> >> 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder ) E fax +39 045.5113.187 - *Overseas
> >> Extra CEE, *( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET please use
> >> www.freeconferencecall.com <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> =
> >> *Skype: nico_cerni* , all inquires to
> >> http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:51:56 -0400
> From: l <linvent at aol.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
>         methodology
> Message-ID: <15b9926ea93-7e4e-358d1 at webprd-a10.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
>     It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We do
> it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
>     As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
>     There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
>     None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
>
>      As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
>
>
>
>
> Naphthalene in Producer Gas
>
> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
> Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate,  exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
> My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
> I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4  as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
> The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne  Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
> Any discussion would be appreciated.
> Doug Williams,
> Fluidyne.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 22:01:42 -0700
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>         <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re:  Naphthalene Condensate Photos,
>         GAST methodology
> Message-ID: <BD5E7BC0-63B7-464F-885B-82877CCBE75D at trmiles.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Can you show us some data?
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent from mobile.
>
> > On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:51 PM, l <linvent at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
> >     It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We
> do it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
> >     As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
> >     There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
> >     None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
> >     As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> > Thermogenics Inc.
> > +001-505-463-8422
> > www.thermogenicx.com
> > Skype: ltt.invent
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> > To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> > Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
> >
> >
> > Naphthalene in Producer Gas
> >
> > Hi Gasification Colleagues,
> > Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate,  exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
> > My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
> > I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4  as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
> > The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne  Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
> > Any discussion would be appreciated.
> > Doug Williams,
> > Fluidyne.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:34:35 +0530
> From: Kamalesh Doshi <kamaleshdoshi6 at gmail.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
> Message-ID:
>         <CAORJYxpdmGsLgPMdtN4k5pkJzJcvSx3nFoq9AfUasBYn982B1w at mail.gm
> ail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am looking for guidance on set-up and test protocols and procedures for
> measurement of gravitational tars for a 1 MW demonstration project using
> woodchips.. Is reliable "online" measurement of tars available?
>
> Any guidance is highly appreciated!
>
> Kamalesh Doshi
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:03:39 +0200
> From: Bj?rn Kuntze <kuntze at mastergas.de>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
>         <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> Message-ID: <016101d2bc32$080de240$1829a6c0$@mastergas.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="UTF-8"
>
> Dear Nico,
>
> it is very good to hear that there is a considerable number of successful
> AHT installations in operation.
> Nico, could you please provide some basic information about these projects
> like:
> - location,
> - year of commissioning,
> - capacity,
> - engine operation or just thermal application
> - fuel
>
> That would be really nice.
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / with best regards
> Bj?rn Kuntze
>
>
> MasterGas UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)
> Bloherfelder Anger 7
> 26129 Oldenburg
> Germany
>
> Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bj?rn Kuntze
>
> Mobil:  +49 (0) 177 345 1557
> Email:   kuntze at mastergas.de
> Web:    www.mastergas.de
>
> Handelsregister:  HRB 211272 ? Amtsgericht Oldenburg
> USt-ID-Nr:  DE307863882
> St.-Nr:         64/213/02649
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
> Diese Information ist ausschlie?lich f?r den Adressaten bestimmt und kann
> vertraulich oder gesetzlich gesch?tzte Informationen enthalten. Wenn Sie
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>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> Im Auftrag von Cerni
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. April 2017 00:15
> An: jess at blackislefirewood.co.uk; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
> gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
>
> good evening Readers
>
> this msg is for Bjoern, AHT has one unique selling proposition a very
> accurately and efficiently designed double countercurrent oxidation , they
> have 12 successfully installed units with very high efficiencies and uptime
> over  8100  hours,. low ash at around 1,25%, they are undergoing
> reengineering and will expand rapidly very soon....
> I ll  be please to send to you budgetray offer if you need them AHT can
> process many organic matters besides wood. We are currently gasifying coal
> and chicken litter manure on karge scale.
> regards
>
> N Cerni
> AES NRG LTD Dublin
> AHT agents
>
>
> Inviato da iPad,
> Nicolo Cerni
> mobiloffice
> 0039 340.830.67.97 pls sms me or skype nico_cerni
>
> > Il giorno 22/apr/2017, alle ore 11:44, Jess Christman <
> jess at blackislefirewood.co.uk> ha scritto:
> >
> > HI Tom,
> >
> > Any thoughts on the All Power Labs PP20?
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Jess
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, April 19, 2017 10:04 pm, Tom Miles wrote:
> >> Thanks Bjorn.
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Bj?rn Kuntze
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:35 PM
> >> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I know AHT installations since 1997, when I worked on such a project
> >> personally.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regarding the performance of their systems, I recommend to contact
> >> AHT personally. I am not sure whether they provide reference lists
> >> for interested parties.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >>
> >> Bjorn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Von: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> Im Auftrag von Tom Miles
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 18:25
> >> An: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Betreff: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> AHT was one of the early gasifiers to recognize, or remember, the
> >> importance of the geometry of the fuel. Does anyone know about the
> >> long term performance of the AHT gasifiers? Years? Hours per year?
> >> Mean-time between failure (MTBF)?
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Bj?rn Kuntze
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 4:29 AM
> >> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nico,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I wonder whether you mentioned A.H.T. Pyrogas GmbH by the link that
> >> you posted ? <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de> www.pyrogas-gmbh.de??
> >>
> >> Very well-known in Germany through lots of projects since the later
> >> 80ies?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >> Bjorn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Von: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> Im Auftrag von Nicol? Cerni
> >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. April 2017 09:05
> >> An: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Betreff: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> you are welcome Tom,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> only 4 manufacturers offer certified syngas with low tars ( < than 4
> >> mgr/nM3 )
> >>
> >> and only very few can process anything else other than strictly
> >> selected wood chips
> >>
> >> here is one we are proud to represent
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> www.pyrogas-gmbh.de <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The package units you refer to as Spanner had a GM 5,7 motor for
> >> years that required
> >>
> >> complete replacement  after 3/4 years, now they use a new USA Made
> >> CHP engine called Origin
> >>
> >> probably a labelled OEM Product we cannot  trace.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> our organic biomass gasifier AHT can process different wood waste
> >> types and organic matters
> >>
> >> such as chicken manure
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> NC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam
> >> paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >> Mail priva di virus.
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> www.avast.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-04-18 0:26 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> >:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks, Nicolo. It?s good to know about you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I didn?t know there were that many manufacturers in Europe.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> ] On Behalf Of
> >> Nicol? Cerni
> >> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:08 PM
> >> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Subject: SPAM: Re: [Gasification] Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> please see our versions
> >>
> >> at www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com>
> >>
> >> new addresses here below
> >>
> >> we are shipping to you our sales docs
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> our prices are adjusted to local markets Levelized costs of energy
> >>
> >> they range from 3.200 to 4.600 Euros x 1 Kwe installed Cogen set
> >> power
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> we know all of the gasifiers you mentioned ( Volter is a Spanner user
> >> )
> >>
> >> we have another 12 manufacturers in Europe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> NC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam
> >> paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >> Mail priva di virus.
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> www.avast.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-04-17 23:31 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> >:
> >>
> >>
> >> At a wood energy conference in Alaska last week it occurred to me
> >> that the number of small scale ?industrial? gasifiers is growing.
> >> They are now available worldwide and there are many reports of good
> customer service.
> >> Gasifiers that were only available in Europe are now being installed
> >> in North America.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Wood chip and pellet gasifiers in the 40-125 kWe range are now
> >> running
> >> 7000 hours or more.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Some suppliers:
> >>
> >>
> >> Spanner <http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/>  ? 600 units
> >>
> >>
> >> Volter <http://volter.fi/>  ? 100 units
> >>
> >>
> >> Holzenergie <http://www.holzenergie-wegscheid.de/?lang=EN>  ? 60
> >> units
> >>
> >>
> >> Burkhardt
> >> <http://burkhardt-energy.com/hp604/Wood-Gasifier-V-3-90.htm>  ?
> >> 100+ (wood pellets)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> These units all have tight fuel requirements: pellets (Burkhardt) or
> >> dry (13-15% MC), and properly sized fuel for reliable operation. Some
> >> suppliers offer sizing and drying equipment.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> They are all expensive so they require applications where there is
> >> high value for the heat and the power.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What has been the owner-operator experience of running these systems?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
> >> ioen
> >> ergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> gradite i nostri  piu' distinti saluti,  atentamente, best regards,
> >> freundliche Gr??e , ?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >> Nico Cerni ,  N C A (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJRWNrcllwN
> >> nRDQ zg&revid=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJSFY4VFp6ZTNhZFJGWm1vdlZXOGdleFZUMVU4PQ>
> >>
> >> industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >> <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> www.nico-cerni.com ,
> >> <mailto:info at altair-international.com> info at altair-international.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ph  +49.6151.62.73.229.78  und  PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >> eintreten /
> >>
> >>
> >> sales   +39 342.663.51.81  Customers +39 340 830.67.97  Home   +39 045
> >> 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder )  E fax +39 045.5113.187 -  Overseas
> >> Extra CEE,  ( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET   please use
> >> <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> www.freeconferencecall.com =
> Skype:
> >> nico_cerni  , all inquires to
> >> <http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/>
> >> http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
> >> ioen
> >> ergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> gradite i nostri  piu' distinti saluti,  atentamente, best regards,
> >> freundliche Gr??e , ?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >> Nico Cerni ,  N C A (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJRWNrcllwN
> >> nRDQ zg&revid=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJSFY4VFp6ZTNhZFJGWm1vdlZXOGdleFZUMVU4PQ>
> >>
> >> industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >> <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> www.nico-cerni.com ,
> >> <mailto:info at altair-international.com> info at altair-international.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ph  +49.6151.62.73.229.78  und  PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >> eintreten /
> >>
> >>
> >> sales   +39 342.663.51.81  Customers +39 340 830.67.97  Home   +39 045
> >> 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder )  E fax +39 045.5113.187 -  Overseas
> >> Extra CEE,  ( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET   please use
> >> <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> www.freeconferencecall.com =
> Skype:
> >> nico_cerni  , all inquires to
> >> <http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/>
> >> http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
> >> ioen
> >> ergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Jess Christman
> > Swallowfield Smallholding Ltd.
> > 07517489774
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bi
> > oenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:15:04 +0200
> From: "Harrie Knoef" <harrie at knoefconsultancy.com>
> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
> Message-ID: <17954DD998F649EE8677BA0F6D6A58DC at BTGLT002>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear all, the picture below shows (very nice) naphthalene crystals on a
> condensor.
> This condensor was developed in the 1980 when we developed a worldwide
> monitoring program for the UNDP/World Bank.
> The report from Andrea is interesting but there are many points to
> improve. The four plants monitored are clear but the project missed one
> very important gasifier supplier in S-Tirol.
> To Kamalesh: there is no online tar measuring equipment, only off-line
> (gravimetric or a GC if you have access to such expensive apparatus)
>
>
>
> BR/Harrie Knoef
>
>
> From: Kamalesh Doshi
> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:04 AM
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am looking for guidance on set-up and test protocols and procedures for
> measurement of gravitational tars for a 1 MW demonstration project using
> woodchips.. Is reliable "online" measurement of tars available?
>
> Any guidance is highly appreciated!
>
> Kamalesh Doshi
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:18:45 -0400
> From: l <linvent at aol.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re:  Naphthalene Condensate Photos,
>         GAST methodology
> Message-ID: <15b9b9bb930-7e4e-3640c at webprd-a10.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Which data? Caterpillar isn't excited about produced gas operating
> engines? Not sure how I do that.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 11:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re:  Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology
>
>
>
> Can you show us some data?
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent from mobile.
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:51 PM, l <linvent at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
>     It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We do
> it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
>     As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
>     There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
>     None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
>
>      As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
>
>
>
>
> Naphthalene in Producer Gas
>
> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
> Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate,  exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
> My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
> I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4  as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
> The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne  Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
> Any discussion would be appreciated.
> Doug Williams,
> Fluidyne.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:26:15 -0400
> From: l <linvent at aol.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
> Message-ID: <15b9ba2955b-7e4e-36441 at webprd-a10.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> There are ways to measure them. Sandia National Laboratories developed a
> particulate/aerosol measuring system that can do particle size distribution
> and amount on a continuous basis. How much money do you have to spend?
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kamalesh Doshi <kamaleshdoshi6 at gmail.com>
> To: gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 23, 2017 12:06 am
> Subject: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
> I am looking for guidance on set-up and test protocols and procedures for
> measurement of gravitational tars for a 1 MW demonstration project using
> woodchips.. Is reliable "online" measurement of tars available?
>
>
> Any guidance is highly appreciated!
>
>
> Kamalesh Doshi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 10:50:42 -0700
> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
>         <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate
>         Photos, GAST methodology
> Message-ID: <007a01d2bc5a$211098a0$6331c9e0$@trmiles.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> What are your target gas quality numbers? Can you meet them?
>
>
>
> You likely mean high ash/char yield, rather than high carbon yield.
>
>
>
> Do you have data showing the impact of ambient NOx or CO on engine
> missions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> On Behalf Of l
> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 9:19 AM
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: SPAM: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos,
> GAST methodology
>
>
>
> Which data? Caterpillar isn't excited about produced gas operating
> engines? Not sure how I do that.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
>
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
> +001-505-463-8422
>
> www.thermogenicx.com <http://www.thermogenicx.com>
>
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> >
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:gasification at lists.bio
> energylists.org> >
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 11:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology
>
> Can you show us some data?
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
>
> tmiles at trmiles.com <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>
>
> Sent from mobile.
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:51 PM, l <linvent at aol.com <mailto:linvent at aol.com>
> > wrote:
>
> One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
>     It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We do
> it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
>     As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
>     There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
>     None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
>
>     As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
>
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
> +001-505-463-8422
>
> www.thermogenicx.com <http://www.thermogenicx.com>
>
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com <mailto:doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> >
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:gasification at lists.bio
> energylists.org> >
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
>
>
>
> Naphthalene in Producer Gas
>
>
>
> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
>
> Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate,  exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
>
> My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
>
> I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4  as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
>
> The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne  Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
>
> Any discussion would be appreciated.
>
> Doug Williams,
>
> Fluidyne.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasificatio
> n_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
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>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
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> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 75, Issue 6
> *******************************************
>
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