[Gasification] Analysis of Gravitational Tars
Kamalesh Doshi
kamaleshdoshi6 at gmail.com
Sun Apr 23 20:29:48 CDT 2017
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor,
Thanks for your response.
We have some budget to get the samples tested at university lab. If I know
the cost, we may try to get the funding.
Can you please send me the contact details of concerned person at Sandia
National Laboratories?
Regards,
Kamalesh
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 11:30 PM, <
gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
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> 1. Re: SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers (Paul Anderson)
> 2. Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST methodology (l)
> 3. Re: SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology (Tom Miles)
> 4. Analysis of Gravitation Tars (Kamalesh Doshi)
> 5. Re: SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers (Bj?rn Kuntze)
> 6. Re: Analysis of Gravitation Tars (Harrie Knoef)
> 7. Re: SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology (l)
> 8. Re: Analysis of Gravitation Tars (l)
> 9. Re: SPAM: Re: SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology (Tom Miles)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:48:24 -0500
> From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> Message-ID: <0ed65e5a-4b28-ebc3-a4c9-39e89a3bcfee at ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Nicolo,
>
> What is the price for the 11 and 20 kwe units? Asking for
> information. I am not a likely purchaser.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> On 4/22/2017 5:18 PM, Cerni wrote:
> > Bjorn,
> >
> > that is them exactly, and of all twin fired I have seen they are by
> > far the best
> > looking back 120 years history of the famous HKD Humboldt Kloeckner
> > Deutz German gasogen Patent. The same array and system has been
> > renewed and improved 7 times by dr ing J K Ferges, the core technology
> > was validated by DU PONT way back in time thru a thorough examination.
> > we have access to those data....
> >
> > best regards
> > Nico Cerni
> >
> > Inviato da iPad,
> > Nicolo Cerni
> > mobiloffice
> > 0039 340.830.67.97 pls sms me or skype nico_cerni
> >
> > Il giorno 19/apr/2017, alle ore 13:28, Bj?rn Kuntze
> > <kuntze at mastergas.de <mailto:kuntze at mastergas.de>> ha scritto:
> >
> >> Nico,
> >>
> >> I wonder whether you mentioned A.H.T. Pyrogas GmbH by the link that
> >> you posted ?www.pyrogas-gmbh.de <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de>??
> >>
> >> Very well-known in Germany through lots of projects since the later
> >> 80ies?
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Bjorn
> >>
> >> *Von:*Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *Im Auftrag
> >> von *Nicol? Cerni
> >> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 18. April 2017 09:05
> >> *An:* Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> >> *Betreff:* Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> >>
> >> you are welcome Tom,
> >>
> >> only 4 manufacturers offer certified syngas with low tars ( < than 4
> >> mgr/nM3 )
> >>
> >> and only very few can process anything else other than strictly
> >> selected wood chips
> >>
> >> here is one we are proud to represent
> >>
> >> www.pyrogas-gmbh.de <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de>
> >>
> >> The package units you refer to as Spanner had a GM 5,7 motor for
> >> years that required
> >>
> >> complete replacement after 3/4 years, now they use a new USA Made
> >> CHP engine called Origin
> >>
> >> probably a labelled OEM Product we cannot trace.
> >>
> >> our organic biomass gasifier AHT can process different wood waste
> >> types and organic matters
> >>
> >> such as chicken manure
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >> NC
> >>
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-04-18 0:26 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>>:
> >>
> >> Thanks, Nicolo. It?s good to know about you.
> >>
> >> I didn?t know there were that many manufacturers in Europe.
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >> *From:*Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] *On
> >> Behalf Of *Nicol? Cerni
> >> *Sent:* Monday, April 17, 2017 3:08 PM
> >> *To:* Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> >> *Subject:* SPAM: Re: [Gasification] Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >> please see our versions
> >>
> >> at www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com>
> >>
> >> new addresses here below
> >>
> >> we are shipping to you our sales docs
> >>
> >> our prices are adjusted to local markets Levelized costs of energy
> >>
> >> they range from 3.200 to 4.600 Euros x 1 Kwe installed Cogen set
> >> power
> >>
> >> we know all of the gasifiers you mentioned ( Volter is a Spanner
> >> user )
> >>
> >> we have another 12 manufacturers in Europe
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >> NC
> >>
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_
> source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-04-17 23:31 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>>:
> >>
> >> At a wood energy conference in Alaska last week it occurred
> >> to me that the number of small scale ?industrial? gasifiers
> >> is growing. They are now available worldwide and there are
> >> many reports of good customer service. Gasifiers that were
> >> only available in Europe are now being installed in North
> >> America.
> >>
> >> Wood chip and pellet gasifiers in the 40-125 kWe range are
> >> now running 7000 hours or more.
> >>
> >> Some suppliers:
> >>
> >> Spanner <http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/> ? 600 units
> >>
> >> Volter <http://volter.fi/> ? 100 units
> >>
> >> Holzenergie <http://www.holzenergie-wegscheid.de/?lang=EN> ?
> >> 60 units
> >>
> >> Burkhardt
> >> <http://burkhardt-energy.com/hp604/Wood-Gasifier-V-3-90.htm>
> >> ? 100+ (wood pellets)
> >>
> >> These units all have tight fuel requirements: pellets
> >> (Burkhardt) or dry (13-15% MC), and properly sized fuel for
> >> reliable operation. Some suppliers offer sizing and drying
> >> equipment.
> >>
> >> They are all expensive so they require applications where
> >> there is high value for the heat and the power.
> >>
> >> What has been the owner-operator experience of running these
> >> systems?
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/
> gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> /gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, *atentamente*, best
> >> regards, *freundliche Gr??e* , /?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >> /Nico Cerni , /*N C A*(N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >> industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >> www.nico-cerni.com <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> ,
> >> info at altair-international.com <mailto:info at altair-international.com
> >
> >>
> >> Ph +49.6151.62.73.229.78 und PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >> eintreten /
> >>
> >> sales +39 342.663.51.81 Customers +39 340 830.67.97 Home +39
> >> 045 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder ) E fax +39 045.5113.187 -
> >> *Overseas Extra CEE, *( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET please use
> >> www.freeconferencecall.com <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> =
> >> *Skype: nico_cerni* , all inquires to
> >> http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/
> gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> /gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, *atentamente*, best regards,
> >> *freundliche Gr??e* , /?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >> /Nico Cerni , /*N C A*(N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >> industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >> www.nico-cerni.com <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> ,
> >> info at altair-international.com <mailto:info at altair-international.com>
> >>
> >> Ph +49.6151.62.73.229.78 und PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >> eintreten /
> >>
> >> sales +39 342.663.51.81 Customers +39 340 830.67.97 Home +39 045
> >> 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder ) E fax +39 045.5113.187 - *Overseas
> >> Extra CEE, *( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET please use
> >> www.freeconferencecall.com <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> =
> >> *Skype: nico_cerni* , all inquires to
> >> http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 00:51:56 -0400
> From: l <linvent at aol.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology
> Message-ID: <15b9926ea93-7e4e-358d1 at webprd-a10.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
> It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We do
> it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
> As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
> There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
> None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
>
> As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
>
>
>
>
> Naphthalene in Producer Gas
>
> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
> Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate, exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
> My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
> I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4 as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
> The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
> Any discussion would be appreciated.
> Doug Williams,
> Fluidyne.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 22:01:42 -0700
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos,
> GAST methodology
> Message-ID: <BD5E7BC0-63B7-464F-885B-82877CCBE75D at trmiles.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Can you show us some data?
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent from mobile.
>
> > On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:51 PM, l <linvent at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
> > It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We
> do it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
> > As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
> > There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
> > None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
> > As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> > Thermogenics Inc.
> > +001-505-463-8422
> > www.thermogenicx.com
> > Skype: ltt.invent
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> > To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> > Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
> >
> >
> > Naphthalene in Producer Gas
> >
> > Hi Gasification Colleagues,
> > Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate, exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
> > My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
> > I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4 as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
> > The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
> > Any discussion would be appreciated.
> > Doug Williams,
> > Fluidyne.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 11:34:35 +0530
> From: Kamalesh Doshi <kamaleshdoshi6 at gmail.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
> Message-ID:
> <CAORJYxpdmGsLgPMdtN4k5pkJzJcvSx3nFoq9AfUasBYn982B1w at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am looking for guidance on set-up and test protocols and procedures for
> measurement of gravitational tars for a 1 MW demonstration project using
> woodchips.. Is reliable "online" measurement of tars available?
>
> Any guidance is highly appreciated!
>
> Kamalesh Doshi
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:03:39 +0200
> From: Bj?rn Kuntze <kuntze at mastergas.de>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> Message-ID: <016101d2bc32$080de240$1829a6c0$@mastergas.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Dear Nico,
>
> it is very good to hear that there is a considerable number of successful
> AHT installations in operation.
> Nico, could you please provide some basic information about these projects
> like:
> - location,
> - year of commissioning,
> - capacity,
> - engine operation or just thermal application
> - fuel
>
> That would be really nice.
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Gr??en / with best regards
> Bj?rn Kuntze
>
>
> MasterGas UG (haftungsbeschr?nkt)
> Bloherfelder Anger 7
> 26129 Oldenburg
> Germany
>
> Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Bj?rn Kuntze
>
> Mobil: +49 (0) 177 345 1557
> Email: kuntze at mastergas.de
> Web: www.mastergas.de
>
> Handelsregister: HRB 211272 ? Amtsgericht Oldenburg
> USt-ID-Nr: DE307863882
> St.-Nr: 64/213/02649
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
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>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> Im Auftrag von Cerni
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 23. April 2017 00:15
> An: jess at blackislefirewood.co.uk; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
> gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
>
> good evening Readers
>
> this msg is for Bjoern, AHT has one unique selling proposition a very
> accurately and efficiently designed double countercurrent oxidation , they
> have 12 successfully installed units with very high efficiencies and uptime
> over 8100 hours,. low ash at around 1,25%, they are undergoing
> reengineering and will expand rapidly very soon....
> I ll be please to send to you budgetray offer if you need them AHT can
> process many organic matters besides wood. We are currently gasifying coal
> and chicken litter manure on karge scale.
> regards
>
> N Cerni
> AES NRG LTD Dublin
> AHT agents
>
>
> Inviato da iPad,
> Nicolo Cerni
> mobiloffice
> 0039 340.830.67.97 pls sms me or skype nico_cerni
>
> > Il giorno 22/apr/2017, alle ore 11:44, Jess Christman <
> jess at blackislefirewood.co.uk> ha scritto:
> >
> > HI Tom,
> >
> > Any thoughts on the All Power Labs PP20?
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Jess
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, April 19, 2017 10:04 pm, Tom Miles wrote:
> >> Thanks Bjorn.
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Bj?rn Kuntze
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:35 PM
> >> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I know AHT installations since 1997, when I worked on such a project
> >> personally.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regarding the performance of their systems, I recommend to contact
> >> AHT personally. I am not sure whether they provide reference lists
> >> for interested parties.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >>
> >> Bjorn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Von: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> Im Auftrag von Tom Miles
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. April 2017 18:25
> >> An: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Betreff: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> AHT was one of the early gasifiers to recognize, or remember, the
> >> importance of the geometry of the fuel. Does anyone know about the
> >> long term performance of the AHT gasifiers? Years? Hours per year?
> >> Mean-time between failure (MTBF)?
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Bj?rn Kuntze
> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2017 4:29 AM
> >> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nico,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I wonder whether you mentioned A.H.T. Pyrogas GmbH by the link that
> >> you posted ? <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de> www.pyrogas-gmbh.de??
> >>
> >> Very well-known in Germany through lots of projects since the later
> >> 80ies?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >>
> >> Bjorn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Von: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> >> Im Auftrag von Nicol? Cerni
> >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. April 2017 09:05
> >> An: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Betreff: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Small Scale Industrial
> >> Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> you are welcome Tom,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> only 4 manufacturers offer certified syngas with low tars ( < than 4
> >> mgr/nM3 )
> >>
> >> and only very few can process anything else other than strictly
> >> selected wood chips
> >>
> >> here is one we are proud to represent
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> www.pyrogas-gmbh.de <http://www.pyrogas-gmbh.de>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The package units you refer to as Spanner had a GM 5,7 motor for
> >> years that required
> >>
> >> complete replacement after 3/4 years, now they use a new USA Made
> >> CHP engine called Origin
> >>
> >> probably a labelled OEM Product we cannot trace.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> our organic biomass gasifier AHT can process different wood waste
> >> types and organic matters
> >>
> >> such as chicken manure
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> NC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam
> >> paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >> Mail priva di virus.
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> www.avast.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-04-18 0:26 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> >:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks, Nicolo. It?s good to know about you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I didn?t know there were that many manufacturers in Europe.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Gasification
> >> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> ] On Behalf Of
> >> Nicol? Cerni
> >> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2017 3:08 PM
> >> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> >> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> >> Subject: SPAM: Re: [Gasification] Small Scale Industrial Gasifiers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> please see our versions
> >>
> >> at www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com>
> >>
> >> new addresses here below
> >>
> >> we are shipping to you our sales docs
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> our prices are adjusted to local markets Levelized costs of energy
> >>
> >> they range from 3.200 to 4.600 Euros x 1 Kwe installed Cogen set
> >> power
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> we know all of the gasifiers you mentioned ( Volter is a Spanner user
> >> )
> >>
> >> we have another 12 manufacturers in Europe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> NC
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam
> >> paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> >>
> >> Mail priva di virus.
> >> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm
> >> _cam paign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> www.avast.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 2017-04-17 23:31 GMT+02:00 Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com
> >> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> >:
> >>
> >>
> >> At a wood energy conference in Alaska last week it occurred to me
> >> that the number of small scale ?industrial? gasifiers is growing.
> >> They are now available worldwide and there are many reports of good
> customer service.
> >> Gasifiers that were only available in Europe are now being installed
> >> in North America.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Wood chip and pellet gasifiers in the 40-125 kWe range are now
> >> running
> >> 7000 hours or more.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Some suppliers:
> >>
> >>
> >> Spanner <http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/> ? 600 units
> >>
> >>
> >> Volter <http://volter.fi/> ? 100 units
> >>
> >>
> >> Holzenergie <http://www.holzenergie-wegscheid.de/?lang=EN> ? 60
> >> units
> >>
> >>
> >> Burkhardt
> >> <http://burkhardt-energy.com/hp604/Wood-Gasifier-V-3-90.htm> ?
> >> 100+ (wood pellets)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> These units all have tight fuel requirements: pellets (Burkhardt) or
> >> dry (13-15% MC), and properly sized fuel for reliable operation. Some
> >> suppliers offer sizing and drying equipment.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> They are all expensive so they require applications where there is
> >> high value for the heat and the power.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> What has been the owner-operator experience of running these systems?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
> >> ioen
> >> ergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, atentamente, best regards,
> >> freundliche Gr??e , ?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >> Nico Cerni , N C A (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJRWNrcllwN
> >> nRDQ zg&revid=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJSFY4VFp6ZTNhZFJGWm1vdlZXOGdleFZUMVU4PQ>
> >>
> >> industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >> <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> www.nico-cerni.com ,
> >> <mailto:info at altair-international.com> info at altair-international.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ph +49.6151.62.73.229.78 und PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >> eintreten /
> >>
> >>
> >> sales +39 342.663.51.81 Customers +39 340 830.67.97 Home +39 045
> >> 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder ) E fax +39 045.5113.187 - Overseas
> >> Extra CEE, ( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET please use
> >> <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> www.freeconferencecall.com =
> Skype:
> >> nico_cerni , all inquires to
> >> <http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/>
> >> http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >> <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
> >>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
> >> ioen
> >> ergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, atentamente, best regards,
> >> freundliche Gr??e , ?????????? ???????????
> >>
> >> Nico Cerni , N C A (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> >>
> >>
> >> <https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJRWNrcllwN
> >> nRDQ zg&revid=0B_9Nj3AqeQFJSFY4VFp6ZTNhZFJGWm1vdlZXOGdleFZUMVU4PQ>
> >>
> >> industrial marketing ,hitech RES, know-how transfer
> >>
> >> <http://www.nico-cerni.com/> www.nico-cerni.com ,
> >> <mailto:info at altair-international.com> info at altair-international.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ph +49.6151.62.73.229.78 und PIN 9566 einw?hlen , Konferenz
> >> eintreten /
> >>
> >>
> >> sales +39 342.663.51.81 Customers +39 340 830.67.97 Home +39 045
> >> 69.32.996 ( 24 hs voice recorder ) E fax +39 045.5113.187 - Overseas
> >> Extra CEE, ( 15:oo - 22:oo ) Rome CET please use
> >> <http://www.freeconferencecall.com> www.freeconferencecall.com =
> Skype:
> >> nico_cerni , all inquires to
> >> <http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/>
> >> http://www.altair-international.com/it_IT/contact-form/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Gasification mailing list
> >>
> >>
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
> >> ioen
> >> ergylists.org
> >>
> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Jess Christman
> > Swallowfield Smallholding Ltd.
> > 07517489774
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gasification mailing list
> >
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Gasification at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bi
> > oenergylists.org
> >
> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:15:04 +0200
> From: "Harrie Knoef" <harrie at knoefconsultancy.com>
> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
> Message-ID: <17954DD998F649EE8677BA0F6D6A58DC at BTGLT002>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear all, the picture below shows (very nice) naphthalene crystals on a
> condensor.
> This condensor was developed in the 1980 when we developed a worldwide
> monitoring program for the UNDP/World Bank.
> The report from Andrea is interesting but there are many points to
> improve. The four plants monitored are clear but the project missed one
> very important gasifier supplier in S-Tirol.
> To Kamalesh: there is no online tar measuring equipment, only off-line
> (gravimetric or a GC if you have access to such expensive apparatus)
>
>
>
> BR/Harrie Knoef
>
>
> From: Kamalesh Doshi
> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 8:04 AM
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
>
> Dear All,
>
> I am looking for guidance on set-up and test protocols and procedures for
> measurement of gravitational tars for a 1 MW demonstration project using
> woodchips.. Is reliable "online" measurement of tars available?
>
> Any guidance is highly appreciated!
>
> Kamalesh Doshi
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:18:45 -0400
> From: l <linvent at aol.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos,
> GAST methodology
> Message-ID: <15b9b9bb930-7e4e-3640c at webprd-a10.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Which data? Caterpillar isn't excited about produced gas operating
> engines? Not sure how I do that.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at lists.
> bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 11:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology
>
>
>
> Can you show us some data?
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
> tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent from mobile.
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:51 PM, l <linvent at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
> It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We do
> it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
> As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
> There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
> None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
>
> As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
>
>
>
>
> Naphthalene in Producer Gas
>
> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
> Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate, exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
> My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
> I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4 as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
> The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
> Any discussion would be appreciated.
> Doug Williams,
> Fluidyne.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 12:26:15 -0400
> From: l <linvent at aol.com>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
> Message-ID: <15b9ba2955b-7e4e-36441 at webprd-a10.mail.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> There are ways to measure them. Sandia National Laboratories developed a
> particulate/aerosol measuring system that can do particle size distribution
> and amount on a continuous basis. How much money do you have to spend?
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
> +001-505-463-8422
> www.thermogenicx.com
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kamalesh Doshi <kamaleshdoshi6 at gmail.com>
> To: gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sun, Apr 23, 2017 12:06 am
> Subject: [Gasification] Analysis of Gravitation Tars
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
> I am looking for guidance on set-up and test protocols and procedures for
> measurement of gravitational tars for a 1 MW demonstration project using
> woodchips.. Is reliable "online" measurement of tars available?
>
>
> Any guidance is highly appreciated!
>
>
> Kamalesh Doshi
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 10:50:42 -0700
> From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate
> Photos, GAST methodology
> Message-ID: <007a01d2bc5a$211098a0$6331c9e0$@trmiles.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> What are your target gas quality numbers? Can you meet them?
>
>
>
> You likely mean high ash/char yield, rather than high carbon yield.
>
>
>
> Do you have data showing the impact of ambient NOx or CO on engine
> missions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> On Behalf Of l
> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2017 9:19 AM
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: SPAM: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos,
> GAST methodology
>
>
>
> Which data? Caterpillar isn't excited about produced gas operating
> engines? Not sure how I do that.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
>
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
> +001-505-463-8422
>
> www.thermogenicx.com <http://www.thermogenicx.com>
>
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com> >
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <gasification at lists.
> bioenergylists.org <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 11:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] SPAM: Re: Naphthalene Condensate Photos, GAST
> methodology
>
> Can you show us some data?
>
> T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
>
> tmiles at trmiles.com <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>
>
> Sent from mobile.
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2017, at 9:51 PM, l <linvent at aol.com <mailto:linvent at aol.com>
> > wrote:
>
> One of the major reasons Caterpillar won't get heavily involved in
> producer gas engines is the naphthalene issue. One group that had an
> operating power plant for a municipality would operate their engines for a
> few hundred hours and the valves would begin knocking and the V-12 engine
> would have to have a valve job. ir
> It is fairly easy to fix if one knows the properties of the gas. We do
> it as a matter of course as it doesn't make any sense to offer a system
> that has to have the engine rebuilt periodically. One engine manufacturer
> will not guarantee their engine unless it meets their strict standards.
> As to the GAST report, I read some of it and some of the procedures
> can easily be improved such as measuring the air inlet flow using a typical
> mass:flow meter out of a car that is extremely accurate and can provide
> continuous monitoring. In the program we use for our systems, it
> automatically calculates the inlet air flow rate and with settable or
> automatic monitoring inputs such as temp, humidity, can provide continuous
> and accumulated air mass input.
> There are also methods of measuring gas composition, to much better
> detail than is now being used. Fixed gases such as the usual by either GC
> or specific gas analyzers do not show the condensable gases such as
> ethanol, methanol, acetone, acetic acid, napthalene of course, and other
> compounds that may affect engine operation for the better or worse. The
> same system could be used for engine exhaust measuring of say formaldehyde,
> carcinogens, and everything except PAH and particulate.
> None of the gasifiers monitored are as efficient as we would like to
> see in our designs. High carbon yield in the char/ash residue is an
> admission of the inefficiencies present.
>
> As another note, virtually all emission testing is flawed because if
> the inlet air has a few ppm of NOx or CO, the output is going to be biased
> upward this amount and none of the EPA testing protocols take ambient air
> quality into account.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
>
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
> +001-505-463-8422
>
> www.thermogenicx.com <http://www.thermogenicx.com>
>
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug <doug.williams.nz at gmail.com <mailto:doug.williams.nz at gmail.com>
> >
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:gasification at lists.
> bioenergylists.org> >
> Sent: Sat, Apr 22, 2017 5:39 pm
> Subject: [Gasification] Naphthalene Condensate Photos
>
>
>
> Naphthalene in Producer Gas
>
>
>
> Hi Gasification Colleagues,
>
> Reading through the Italian Paper on gasifier monitoring in South Tyrol,
> the reference to Naphthalene caught my eye, because as a light pyrolysis
> oil, after dry filtration and condensation, I have only seen this in gas in
> the Northern hemisphere. Looking like yellow oil floating on aqueous
> condensate, exposed to air when tipped onto a concrete surface, it just
> completely vaporizes leaving only a carbon trace of stain. It makes a good
> mess inside pipes and diaphragm regulators and if being combusted in a
> flare or oxidation chamber, will add to the emissions from the stack. The
> bottom line is that we don't want this in our producer gas for either
> engine or combustion applications, but once condensed, it's very hard to
> clean out of the gas.
>
> My questions to any one who might have some similar experience, is why
> Naphthalene may not show up in small gasifiers under say 100m3/hr, yet
> becomes a issue as the gas output increases from a larger system. I have
> observed this formation in N.Ireland and California and definitely related
> to just higher output. Could it be related to the amount or volume of the
> unstable pyrolysis gas in the fuel hopper? Can this create a chemistry that
> can survive an incandescent char bed, but reform as Naphthalene in the gas
> reduction phase?
>
> I can assure you that it isn't about tar or bad design, as our bed
> analysis and pressure drop continuous monitoring has not shown bridging or
> channeling to be the culprit. Black tars are never present, nor is CH4 as
> Methane (<2%), so bed temperatures are not an issue, nor moisture content
> of the fuels (wood chips or blocks). Char under the grate is dry and clean,
> as is the <10 micron dust from the cyclones.
>
> The photos show two samples from a larger system, one a first stage
> cooling containing ash and carbon with a purple colour from the ash. The
> second bag from the cooling condenser is yellow from the Naphthalene which
> did increase with more gas output . The square container is completely
> clear and comes from the Fluidyne Pacific Class gasifier (90m3/hr) and it
> has always made clear condensate in both hemispheres except when
> incorrectly fueled. It has not been possible to test larger gasifiers of
> our own design here in New Zealand, hence the questions.
>
> Any discussion would be appreciated.
>
> Doug Williams,
>
> Fluidyne.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org <mailto:Gasification at bioenergylists.org>
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.
> bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 75, Issue 6
> *******************************************
>
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