[Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 88, Issue 5
energiesnaturals at gmx.de
energiesnaturals at gmx.de
Mon Nov 12 02:51:51 CST 2018
Hello Geoff,
It seems to me that you are talking about two different things:
HVDC for long distance transmission lines with few connecting points and very expensive switchgear,
and a decentralised microgrid running 400/230 AC with DC connection between some power sources and storage.
And yes, on the HVDC level you are absolutely right about pros and cons.
But that is not the case we are talking about, at least not mine.
We also use <300VDC between PV and battery no prob but not much switching.
But just like what you describe AC for the end user distribution + DC for some special items.
Outlook for Android herunterladen
On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 3:41 AM +0100, "Geoff Thomas" <wind at iig.com.au> wrote:
> Once upon a time, AC was deemed more efficient, but now with much higher voltages and current, DC has the edge.
Sure, you must be more thorough with protection and connection, DC will not auto extinguish as will AC, but technology has advanced considerably in that department.
Undersea cables are now mostly DC, because with AC, generating it’s external wasteful field, thousands of sea creatures are attracted to itso cables build up this enoumous covering of shellfich etc, can’t dissipate heat, very hard to fault find, as the cables become too heavy to lift with out breaking and very fiddly.
For long distance connections, - the which you need to connect all the renewable sites so ensuring regular Renewable supply, (therefore doing away with coal) High, or super high voltage DC (HVDC) is far more efficient and healthy for residents along the way.
A system I put in, producing 50/60kW morning tiill evening, less at night, using a 75kW Wind turbine, and 100 kw inverter, has an 820 volt (max) DC Battery bank, (340 batteries) powering a 3 phase circuit for a whole community, 240 volts (AC) to houses etc, 3 phase to the 8 or 10 air-conditioners, (school) Cool rooms, Kitchen, etc, - no more problems with the DC than the AC.
Going AC/DC/AC, ( a Battery centric system ) allowed huge savings in the equipment costs.- not least because the wind turbine, being variable speed, was an AC/DC/AC machine itself so we just threw away the grid connect part and went straight through the converter to the batteries, and could use the converter to do a MPPT on the Wind generator as well, plus all the control options from the both sides, - particularly as the batteries are air conditioned, - ambient temp being 32 degrees C, so have 3 levels of gas detection inc. a sniffer, and also a shutdown procedure that also vents the air before the door opens for 50 seconds.. all works really well.
Cheers, Geoff Thomas.
> On Nov 11, 2018, at 9:26 AM, > > wrote:
>
> Hallo All,
>
> what makes you say DC is easier than AC?
>
> We run a network of both for 5 houses, deep well and workshop.
>
> There are 5 fridges, 2 deep freezers, vacuum cleaners and whatever one needs for moderate comfort.
>
> We rent 4 of these houses to holiday makers from all over the world.
>
> There is no utilities.
>
> We run 90% solar with deep cycle battery at 240 DC (108 cells).
>
> All lights are on DC, directly from the battery. This avoids us emergency lighting in all these houses.
>
> We run our LAN over the DC grid and have WLAN at each end.
>
> All sockets are A C.We convert DC to AC in a standard 230 V 45 A Freq drive set at 50 Hz, than step it up to 230 VAC.
>
> Works fine and is reasonably cheap.
>
> My experience over the last 25 years is that DC gives us much more trouble than AC!
>
> It is not only the switches, but also a lot more corrosion at any connection.
>
> If there is a bit of humidity inside the installation tubes, DC lines tend to foul and produce smoldering fires.
>
> The Grundfos submersible pump works great on D C!
>
> Best regards
>
> Rolf
>
> Outlook for Android herunterladen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 5:55 PM +0100, "Leland Taylor" > wrote:
>
> It is actually easier to go to DC. So much process design is obsolete because engineers aren't willing to learn new ways. Disruptive, advancing technologies are being suppressed.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. Taylor
>
> Edisonetics
>
> +001-505-463-8422
>
> www.thermogenicx.com
>
> www.watr-x.com
>
> www.agronicsinc.com
>
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark E. Ludlow >
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >
> Sent: Sat, Nov 10, 2018 8:24 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] APL Gasifier in the Microgrid at the 2018 Verge Conference
>
> Dear Dr. Paul,
>
>
>
> You stated, something about what benefit mankind could achieve, particularly, in what many refer to as, ?Developing, Economies.?
>
>
>
> I have always strived to be fair and moral (by my way of reckoning), and I would like to see more interest in TLUD. (Open cook-fires are a major cause of chronic respiratory abuse!)
>
>
>
> What lacked is a, ?Build it! They will come,? attitude. But as in the wonderful metaphor, suggests: ?Cream rises to the Top?. We must be energized ; nervous...and be ready for when all those Cyborg eggs start start hatching, and dues of today, become due, for the rest of our profligate society; as well as a wide swath of Church Ladies that just knew, (My Dear!!) but
>
>
>
> Sent by my uPhone
>
>
> On Nov 10, 2018, at 5:40 PM, Anderson, Paul > wrote:
>
> Jess,
>
>
>
> Is the price of grid power so high there that it is economical to generate power with a biomass system to sell power to the grid?
>
>
>
> Electrical power topics are a bit outside of my base of knowledge. So, I cannot comment about splitting of 3-phase power. Maybe just create the power in single (split) phase.
>
>
>
> But I do know something about charcoal gasification that can run internal combustion (IC) engines. And about the making of appropriate charcoal. You could use the heat from burning the pyrolysis gases for your drying purposes.
>
>
>
> Much depends on the amount of biomass you have available. Some places are with such excess biomass that people pay to get rid of it, or give it freely. A little more about your situation could clear that topic. Much depends on how much you really need to create your own power with biomass.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
>
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud
>
> Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
>
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
>
>
> From: Gasification > On Behalf Of jess at blackislefirewood.co.uk
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2018 12:33 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] APL Gasifier in the Microgrid at the 2018 Verge Conference
>
>
>
> HI Paul,
>
> I run a woodchip/firewood business.
>
> We are offgrid, with 3.5 kw of solar and a 5kw generator as backup.
>
> We can get a connection to the grid of 30kwe but only single phase.
>
> I would like to source a chp unit to provide power to us and also to the grid, plus use any heat for drying woodchip.
>
> I presume you can split the 3 phase supply and export OK?
>
> I am allright with nuts and bolts, currently running 2 biomass boilers and drying systems.
>
> Thanks for your interest.
>
> I have looked at the Spanner system but the price does not work with regards to the economic payback.
>
> Yours,
>
> Jess Christman
>
> Swallowfield Smallholding Ltd.
>
> Teandalloch Road
>
> Beauly
>
> IV4 7AA
>
> Scotland
>
> 07517489774
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2018-11-09 14:32, Anderson, Paul wrote:
>
> Jess,
>
>
>
> Could you please describe your situation more completely. In terms of needs for what power for how many people/ businesses. Then several of us could possibly better assist you.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
>
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud
>
> Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
>
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
>
>
> From: Gasification > On Behalf Of jess at blackislefirewood.co.uk
> Sent: Thursday, November 8, 2018 11:03 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] APL Gasifier in the Microgrid at the 2018 Verge Conference
>
>
>
> HI Tom,
>
> I live in Scotland and wonder how All Power Labs PP30 is performing?
>
> We are off grid and produce woodchip, so it would be a good fit. I am just concerned about reliability.
>
> Jess
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2018-10-13 19:19, tmiles at trmiles.com wrote:
>
> See the All Power Labs gasifier in the Microgrid Tour (Verge Energy) at the 2018 Verge Conference, Oakland Convention Center, Oakland, CA, October 16-18
>
> https://www.greenbiz.com/events/verge-conference/oakland/2018/microgrid
>
>
>
> VERGE Microgrid Tour Schedule:
>
>
>
> Tuesday, October 16
> 1:00 PM - 1:20 PM
> 3:50 PM - 4:10 PM
> 6:00 PM - 6:20 PM
>
> Wednesday, October 17
> 1:00 PM - 1:20 PM
> 3:50 PM - 4:10 PM
> 6:00 PM - 6:20 PM
>
> Thursday, October 18
> 1:00 PM - 1:20 PM
>
>
>
> Interesting collection of renewable technologies.
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 20:29:21 +0000
> From: "Anderson, Paul"
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>
> Subject: [Gasification] Need for off-grid non-solar electricity where
> biomass is plentiful
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Tom and all,
>
> Please guide us (as a start) to understanding the needs and realities of off-grid non-solar power where biomass is plentiful. Are there some key links?
>
> Low-population, forested high latitude areas (less sunlight) without easy boat or train access would seem to be a major geographic region of need. Diesel generators seem to dominate the power generation. What sources confirm these statements, how big is the problem (expressed as numbers of gensets at what sizes), and what is being done about it, and by whom? (Canadians, please reply with your info.)
>
> This should be a significant topic for this Listserv.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud
> Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> From: Gasification On Behalf Of tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2018 1:13 PM
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] APL Gasifier in the Microgrid at the 2018 Verge Conference
>
> Are you in a marine air environment? There are many villages that need electricity in low coastal areas..
>
> Tom
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:51:37 +1300
> From: Jason
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Need for off-grid non-solar electricity
> where biomass is plentiful
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Paul and all,
>
> for some time I have known my IntensiFire technology would be very suitable
> for a solid fuel turbine. With combustion temperatures sufficient to melt
> stainless steel in a batch burn scenario the carnot efficiency could match
> that of a liquid or gas fueled turbine.
>
> A couple of attempts to secure funding have been unsuccessful but I
> recently heard discussion discussing the potential supply side rather than
> demand side - forestry residue. The calorific value of this forestry
> residue in New Zealand is equal to 10% of our electricity generation
> capacity but it is uneconomic to recover. I have met with someone that
> experimented unsuccessfully with biochar/pyrolysis oil to capture it. I
> found a willing ear for my proposal of a wood chip powered solid fuel
> turbine to power the chipper, and for transport fuel to get the chip to a
> central site where it could be fed into the grid using combined cycle. The
> willing ear spoke to his prior funding source and found another willing
> ear, so the wheels are turning.
>
> There will be some technical issues to overcome, but I think it is
> achievable and an exciting development to be involved with.
>
> It could change the direction of biomass energy projects if it proves
> reliable. I will keep pursuing options here in New Zealand, but if you want
> to be involved and can see a way to fund such a project please get in
> touch. http://intensifire.co.nz/
>
> For your consideration.
>
> Jason Stewart
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 9:31 AM Anderson, Paul wrote:
>
>> Tom and all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Please guide us (as a start) to understanding the needs and realities of
>> off-grid non-solar power where biomass is plentiful. Are there some key
>> links?
>>
>>
>>
>> Low-population, forested high latitude areas (less sunlight) without easy
>> boat or train access would seem to be a major geographic region of need.
>> Diesel generators seem to dominate the power generation. What sources
>> confirm these statements, how big is the problem (expressed as numbers of
>> gensets at what sizes), and what is being done about it, and by whom?
>> (Canadians, please reply with your info.)
>>
>>
>>
>> This should be a significant topic for this Listserv.
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>>
>> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
>>
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud
>>
>> Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
>>
>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Gasification *On
>> Behalf Of *tmiles at trmiles.com
>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 11, 2018 1:13 PM
>> *To:* 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <
>> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Gasification] APL Gasifier in the Microgrid at the 2018
>> Verge Conference
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you in a marine air environment? There are many villages that need
>> electricity in low coastal areas..
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 21:08:55 +0000
> From: "Anderson, Paul"
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Need for off-grid non-solar electricity
> where biomass is plentiful
> Message-ID:
>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Jason,
>
> You and I have corresponded a few years back. Congratulations on your progress.
>
> I looked at the website. I did not see the topic of making electricity with your technology. Please correct me if I am incorrect about that.
>
> And you wrote below: ??where it could be fed into the grid using combined cycle.? I think that means some big system. I am directing my question toward staying off of the grid. Does your technology suit that need?
>
> I am hoping Tom and others can help quantify the need, such as info about units smaller than 5 or 7 kWe for short time usage, versus 8 to 15 kWe all day long, or 20kWe and larger units, And then the much larger units like 50 kWe and even larger.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud
> Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> From: Gasification On Behalf Of Jason
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2018 2:52 PM
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Need for off-grid non-solar electricity where biomass is plentiful
>
> Paul and all,
>
> for some time I have known my IntensiFire technology would be very suitable for a solid fuel turbine. With combustion temperatures sufficient to melt stainless steel in a batch burn scenario the carnot efficiency could match that of a liquid or gas fueled turbine.
>
> A couple of attempts to secure funding have been unsuccessful but I recently heard discussion discussing the potential supply side rather than demand side - forestry residue. The calorific value of this forestry residue in New Zealand is equal to 10% of our electricity generation capacity but it is uneconomic to recover. I have met with someone that experimented unsuccessfully with biochar/pyrolysis oil to capture it. I found a willing ear for my proposal of a wood chip powered solid fuel turbine to power the chipper, and for transport fuel to get the chip to a central site where it could be fed into the grid using combined cycle. The willing ear spoke to his prior funding source and found another willing ear, so the wheels are turning.
>
> There will be some technical issues to overcome, but I think it is achievable and an exciting development to be involved with.
>
> It could change the direction of biomass energy projects if it proves reliable. I will keep pursuing options here in New Zealand, but if you want to be involved and can see a way to fund such a project please get in touch. http://intensifire.co.nz/
>
> For your consideration.
>
> Jason Stewart
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 12, 2018 at 9:31 AM Anderson, Paul > wrote:
> Tom and all,
>
> Please guide us (as a start) to understanding the needs and realities of off-grid non-solar power where biomass is plentiful. Are there some key links?
>
> Low-population, forested high latitude areas (less sunlight) without easy boat or train access would seem to be a major geographic region of need. Diesel generators seem to dominate the power generation. What sources confirm these statements, how big is the problem (expressed as numbers of gensets at what sizes), and what is being done about it, and by whom? (Canadians, please reply with your info.)
>
> This should be a significant topic for this Listserv.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud
> Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
> Website: www.drtlud.com
>
> From: Gasification > On Behalf Of tmiles at trmiles.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2018 1:13 PM
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' >
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] APL Gasifier in the Microgrid at the 2018 Verge Conference
>
> Are you in a marine air environment? There are many villages that need electricity in low coastal areas..
>
> Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 12:50:01 -0800
> From: Werner Rhein
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Need for off-grid non-solar electricity
> where biomass is plentiful
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all,
>
> very interesting question but with an easy answer. There are now several manufacturers of wood gasification generators in Europe the US and China.
>
> I established connections to the German company with most of experience, 5500 units installed and over 20 000 000 hours of operation, trouble free.
>
>
>
> Here an installation in Canada.
>
> https://www.canadianbiomassmagazine.ca/news/green-gas-kwadacha-nation-installs-wood-gasification-system-6699
>
>
> Here the US All Power Lab,
>
> http://www.allpowerlabs.com/
>
> Why are you looking in all the wrong places. Go to the proven products, install it and use it. Then if necessary improve it. Way less time consuming and investment.
>
> Werner Rhein
>
> Another Solution Consulting.
>
>
>
>
>> On Nov 11, 2018, at 12:29, Anderson, Paul wrote:
>
>> Tom and all,
>>
>> Please guide us (as a start) to understanding the needs and realities of off-grid non-solar power where biomass is plentiful. Are there some key links?
>>
>> Low-population, forested high latitude areas (less sunlight) without easy boat or train access would seem to be a major geographic region of need. Diesel generators seem to dominate the power generation. What sources confirm these statements, how big is the problem (expressed as numbers of gensets at what sizes), and what is being done about it, and by whom? (Canadians, please reply with your info.)
>>
>> This should be a significant topic for this Listserv.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Doc / Dr TLUD / Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Exec. Dir. of Juntos Energy Solutions NFP
>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud
>> Phone: Office: 309-452-7072 Mobile: 309-531-4434
>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>
>> From: Gasification > On Behalf Of tmiles at trmiles.com
>> Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2018 1:13 PM
>> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' >
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] APL Gasifier in the Microgrid at the 2018 Verge Conference
>>
>> Are you in a marine air environment? There are many villages that need electricity in low coastal areas..
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 88, Issue 5
> *******************************************
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