[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 3, Issue 21
Carmine Bocchino
bocchtech at bigpond.com
Tue Nov 23 16:16:31 CST 2010
?CCO2 Removal is quite simple with a water scrubber.
What volume of biogas are you dealing with?
Carmine
www.bocchtech.com
-----Original Message-----
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Compressing of biogas (Alexander Eaton)
2. Re: Compressing of biogas (Randy Mott)
3. Re: Compressing of biogas (bingham)
4. Re: Compressing of biogas (Alexander Eaton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 10:29:51 -0700
From: Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Compressing of biogas
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinAcCvEeHQ8KbBPb7bpOepvvWzop5vJP-HamA4P at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
At our scale, CO2 filtration is ruled our because it requires high inputs of
chemicals or energy (which can be justified potentially under large scales),
and the benefit it really just space, as the CO2 does not significantly
hamper the combustion process. If CO2 filtration were easier, carbon
sequestration projects would have gained more traction by now.
Methane is similar to other gases, but yet so different. As the most simple
hydrocarbon, it has the most energy per unit of mass, but the least amount
of energy per unit of space. Picture one carbon with four hydrogens poking
out in all directions, versus a tight string of carbon bonds as found in
other hydrocarbons. With methane the hydrogens slightly repel each other,
and therefore, methane dose not "like" to be compressed. Even natural gas,
mostly methane, is not generally compressed to the degree of say, propane,
which is even liquefied. There are obviously LNG projects, but again, scale
is the key driver.
Maybe there are new technological options, but at my last look, it required
between 2 to 3 units of energy to bottle about 10 units of energy worth of
methane at a pressure that would give you any useful volume. That math gets
worse with 40% CO2. Scale changes everything, and there are biogas
transportation projects. Investing the energy into filtration (high
pressure water systems can take out CO2) and compression will still leave
you energy positive, and the energy was still originated from waste. So,
here I am specifically talking about being discouraged by smaller systems.
When one looks at the properties of biogas, and the conditions of small
biogas plants, the lowest entropy solution is low-pressure, on-site use.
All options within this range should be exhausted before other options are
considered. The caveat to this would be micro biogas grids. Biogas can be
transported readily in pipes, and there are simple blowers that can make
that happen relatively efficiently. A low pressure simple pipeline being
fed by one medium to large plant, or a few smaller plants could also be a
reality. The longer pipeline option is less of an option when you have
limited buy-in and must cross other people's land or roads in the process.
Saludos,
Alex
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Reuben Deumling <9watts at gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you say a bit more about
> - why separating out the CO2 is ruled out? and
> - why if methane 'does not like to be compressed' so many other similar
> gases are compressed regularly?
>
> Perhaps I'm missing something.
> I do appreciate the transport ideas without compression or a pipeline.
>
> Reuben Deumling
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
> > wrote:
>
>> We go around this issue frequently, as end users often come up with the
>> same idea. It is hard to tell them no, so we always take a fresh look
>> under
>> the circumstances. At the end of the day filtration of CO2 i always
>> ruled
>> out, and that means 40% of the volume of gas you are compressing serves
>> no
>> energetic purpose. Add that to the fact that methane does not like to be
>> compressed, and we arrive again at a "no" response.
>>
>> The one option we always examine is the non-compressed transportation of
>> large gas reservoirs. This we have tried for distances that are too long
>> for a simple gas line, and short enough to be practical by cart. Since
>> we
>> can make durable gas reservoirs of any size and shape, this is not
>> unfeasible. Once transported, the gas is connected and used as usual,
>> while
>> a second reservoir is filling. If you can create value for this use, and
>> the transport logistics to not out-weight the value of the energy
>> provided,
>> you may have an option for success. Others have used large truck
>> inner-tubes in the same way, that are then rolled down the street to the
>> end
>> use. I suspect that in certain locations, systems that considered
>> low-pressure distribution could gain some traction.
>>
>> Saludos,
>>
>> A
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Vianney Tumwesige <
>> trustvianney at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Harold,
>>>
>>> I completely agree withYvonne, it will be economically expensive to
>>> compress the gas.
>>>
>>> P.S. Yvonne, could you send me a copy of the paper and ppt as well?
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Harold leffertstra <
>>> haroldleffertstra at yahoo.no> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hello
>>>> Got a question from the owner of a small biogass plant in Tanzania.
>>>> He is expanding a small existing biogas plant to be able to digest
>>>> waste
>>>> from 200 households and manure from 100 cows.
>>>> He is interested in using the biogas for fueling vehicles. In our part
>>>> of the world we think it will be necessary with cleaning, uppgrading of
>>>> the
>>>> gas and compressing.
>>>> Do any of you have experience/ideas about whether this is feasible for
>>>> such a small plant?
>>>> 1)What is necessary to use the biogas for fueling vehicles and 2) what
>>>> are the technical and economical consequences?
>>>> Thank you
>>>> Harold Leffertstra
>>>> Senior Advisor
>>>> Norwegian Climate and Pollution Agency
>>>> Oslo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>>
>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> for more information about digestion, see
>>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Vianney Tumwesige
>>> Director - Green Heat (U) Ltd [image: Picture]
>>> P.O. Box 10235
>>> Kampala-Uganda
>>> 256 (0) 71 237 9889
>>>
>>> "The more people are self sufficient in cooking fuel, the more personal
>>> and financial freedom they have." - Emma Casson
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://trustvianney.wordpress.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more information about digestion, see
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexander Eaton
>> Sistema Biobolsa
>> IRRI-Mexico
>> RedBioLAC
>>
>> Mex cel: (55) 11522786
>> US cel: 970 275 4505
>>
>> alex at irrimexico.org
>> alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
>>
>> sistemabiobolsa.com
>> www.irrimexico.org
>> www.redbiolac.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more information about digestion, see
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
--
Alexander Eaton
Sistema Biobolsa
IRRI-Mexico
RedBioLAC
Mex cel: (55) 11522786
US cel: 970 275 4505
alex at irrimexico.org
alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
sistemabiobolsa.com
www.irrimexico.org
www.redbiolac.org
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:36:16 +0100
From: "Randy Mott" <randymott at ceeres.eu>
To: "For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion"
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Compressing of biogas
Message-ID: <900884CDA2A84F70B687ADBFA60FA2DD at randypc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Great point on the lack of an imperative to remove CO2. We are working on
projects that will feed methane (with CO@) to large gas turbines. Very
economical.
Randy Mott
CEERES
Warsaw
----- Original Message -----
From: Alexander Eaton
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Compressing of biogas
At our scale, CO2 filtration is ruled our because it requires high inputs
of chemicals or energy (which can be justified potentially under large
scales), and the benefit it really just space, as the CO2 does not
significantly hamper the combustion process. If CO2 filtration were easier,
carbon sequestration projects would have gained more traction by now.
Methane is similar to other gases, but yet so different. As the most
simple hydrocarbon, it has the most energy per unit of mass, but the least
amount of energy per unit of space. Picture one carbon with four hydrogens
poking out in all directions, versus a tight string of carbon bonds as found
in other hydrocarbons. With methane the hydrogens slightly repel each
other, and therefore, methane dose not "like" to be compressed. Even
natural gas, mostly methane, is not generally compressed to the degree of
say, propane, which is even liquefied. There are obviously LNG projects,
but again, scale is the key driver.
Maybe there are new technological options, but at my last look, it
required between 2 to 3 units of energy to bottle about 10 units of energy
worth of methane at a pressure that would give you any useful volume. That
math gets worse with 40% CO2. Scale changes everything, and there are
biogas transportation projects. Investing the energy into filtration (high
pressure water systems can take out CO2) and compression will still leave
you energy positive, and the energy was still originated from waste. So,
here I am specifically talking about being discouraged by smaller systems.
When one looks at the properties of biogas, and the conditions of small
biogas plants, the lowest entropy solution is low-pressure, on-site use.
All options within this range should be exhausted before other options are
considered. The caveat to this would be micro biogas grids. Biogas can be
transported readily in pipes, and there are simple blowers that can make
that happen relatively efficiently. A low pressure simple pipeline being
fed by one medium to large plant, or a few smaller plants could also be a
reality. The longer pipeline option is less of an option when you have
limited buy-in and must cross other people's land or roads in the process.
Saludos,
Alex
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Reuben Deumling <9watts at gmail.com>
wrote:
Can you say a bit more about
- why separating out the CO2 is ruled out? and
- why if methane 'does not like to be compressed' so many other similar
gases are compressed regularly?
Perhaps I'm missing something.
I do appreciate the transport ideas without compression or a pipeline.
Reuben Deumling
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Alexander Eaton
<alex at sistemabiobolsa.com> wrote:
We go around this issue frequently, as end users often come up with
the same idea. It is hard to tell them no, so we always take a fresh look
under the circumstances. At the end of the day filtration of CO2 i always
ruled out, and that means 40% of the volume of gas you are compressing
serves no energetic purpose. Add that to the fact that methane does not
like to be compressed, and we arrive again at a "no" response.
The one option we always examine is the non-compressed transportation
of large gas reservoirs. This we have tried for distances that are too long
for a simple gas line, and short enough to be practical by cart. Since we
can make durable gas reservoirs of any size and shape, this is not
unfeasible. Once transported, the gas is connected and used as usual, while
a second reservoir is filling. If you can create value for this use, and
the transport logistics to not out-weight the value of the energy provided,
you may have an option for success. Others have used large truck
inner-tubes in the same way, that are then rolled down the street to the end
use. I suspect that in certain locations, systems that considered
low-pressure distribution could gain some traction.
Saludos,
A
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Vianney Tumwesige
<trustvianney at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Harold,
I completely agree withYvonne, it will be economically expensive to
compress the gas.
P.S. Yvonne, could you send me a copy of the paper and ppt as well?
Best regards
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Harold leffertstra
<haroldleffertstra at yahoo.no> wrote:
hello
Got a question from the owner of a small biogass plant
in Tanzania.
He is expanding a small existing biogas plant to be
able to digest waste from 200 households and manure from 100 cows.
He is interested in using the biogas for fueling
vehicles. In our part of the world we think it will be necessary with
cleaning, uppgrading of the gas and compressing.
Do any of you have experience/ideas about whether this
is feasible for such a small plant?
1)What is necessary to use the biogas for fueling
vehicles and 2) what are the technical and economical consequences?
Thank you
Harold Leffertstra
Senior Advisor
Norwegian Climate and Pollution Agency
Oslo
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
--
Vianney Tumwesige
Director - Green Heat (U) Ltd
P.O. Box 10235
Kampala-Uganda
256 (0) 71 237 9889
"The more people are self sufficient in cooking fuel, the more
personal and financial freedom they have." - Emma Casson
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
--
Alexander Eaton
Sistema Biobolsa
IRRI-Mexico
RedBioLAC
Mex cel: (55) 11522786
US cel: 970 275 4505
alex at irrimexico.org
alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
sistemabiobolsa.com
www.irrimexico.org
www.redbiolac.org
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
--
Alexander Eaton
Sistema Biobolsa
IRRI-Mexico
RedBioLAC
Mex cel: (55) 11522786
US cel: 970 275 4505
alex at irrimexico.org
alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
sistemabiobolsa.com
www.irrimexico.org
www.redbiolac.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 11:59:17 -0700
From: "bingham" <bingham at zekes.com>
To: "For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion"
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Compressing of biogas
Message-ID: <00ADCE942C0E4F3DA4CE98C49FC831E4 at Portable>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
We have found that many smaller plants use a floating dome to hold the gas.
It is fairly
effective to use lime water as the liquid under the dome and bubble the gas
through it.
Much of the CO2 is removed and takes up less volume in the dome.
Our primary concern is H2S. It deteriorates the steel containers many have
used and
posses a safety hazard.
You can compress almost any gas or liquid with almost no energy input if
you have a deep shaft
or a small mountain. Mix the gas and liquid together and feed it into a very
strong pipe that
in unaffected by H2S. When the mixture is at the bottom of the pipe the
pressure is approximately
one PSI for every two feet it has traveled down the pipe. At the bottom
separate the liquid from the
gas and you have two power sources. We use this method to compress gas for
gas turbine generators.
One of the weaknesses of gas turbines is the necessity to compress the fuel.
The compressors rob power from the turbine lowering power output.
Location is the key, not everyone lives next to a mountain or a deep cave,
but the gas or pressurized
liquid can be piped long distances because it is pressurized for almost
nothing. You can use this
method to replace steam in stationary steam generators or hydraulic motors.
You are only limited
by your imagination: your choice of the gas and liquid.
Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: Alexander Eaton
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Compressing of biogas
We go around this issue frequently, as end users often come up with the
same idea. It is hard to tell them no, so we always take a fresh look under
the circumstances. At the end of the day filtration of CO2 i always ruled
out, and that means 40% of the volume of gas you are compressing serves no
energetic purpose. Add that to the fact that methane does not like to be
compressed, and we arrive again at a "no" response.
The one option we always examine is the non-compressed transportation of
large gas reservoirs. This we have tried for distances that are too long
for a simple gas line, and short enough to be practical by cart. Since we
can make durable gas reservoirs of any size and shape, this is not
unfeasible. Once transported, the gas is connected and used as usual, while
a second reservoir is filling. If you can create value for this use, and
the transport logistics to not out-weight the value of the energy provided,
you may have an option for success. Others have used large truck
inner-tubes in the same way, that are then rolled down the street to the end
use. I suspect that in certain locations, systems that considered
low-pressure distribution could gain some traction.
Saludos,
A
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Vianney Tumwesige
<trustvianney at gmail.com> wrote:
Hello Harold,
I completely agree withYvonne, it will be economically expensive to
compress the gas.
P.S. Yvonne, could you send me a copy of the paper and ppt as well?
Best regards
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Harold leffertstra
<haroldleffertstra at yahoo.no> wrote:
hello
Got a question from the owner of a small biogass plant in
Tanzania.
He is expanding a small existing biogas plant to be able
to digest waste from 200 households and manure from 100 cows.
He is interested in using the biogas for fueling vehicles.
In our part of the world we think it will be necessary with cleaning,
uppgrading of the gas and compressing.
Do any of you have experience/ideas about whether this is
feasible for such a small plant?
1)What is necessary to use the biogas for fueling vehicles
and 2) what are the technical and economical consequences?
Thank you
Harold Leffertstra
Senior Advisor
Norwegian Climate and Pollution Agency
Oslo
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
--
Vianney Tumwesige
Director - Green Heat (U) Ltd
P.O. Box 10235
Kampala-Uganda
256 (0) 71 237 9889
"The more people are self sufficient in cooking fuel, the more personal
and financial freedom they have." - Emma Casson
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
--
Alexander Eaton
Sistema Biobolsa
IRRI-Mexico
RedBioLAC
Mex cel: (55) 11522786
US cel: 970 275 4505
alex at irrimexico.org
alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
sistemabiobolsa.com
www.irrimexico.org
www.redbiolac.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Digestion at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 12:25:42 -0700
From: Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Compressing of biogas
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimY7TtWy0BcYfue8sBeM8UA8DDEUpo02WaKeCLy at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Brent,
I understand that it is effective to use lime water to filter CO2, but in
theory you are talking about a relatively large amount of lime water that
must be replaced constantly, causing the issues surrounding lime water
management. Can you elaborate quantities and chemical balance of this
process? If the goal is just to slightly reduce the CO2 content, then that
can been done in a few different ways. How much CO2 are you removing from
the biogas, and under water lime water usage (eg, at water/lime
concentrations etc.).
I am afraid I am a bit lost regarding the shaft compression method you are
discussing here. In what situation would one have a large shaft available?
How are you mixing the gas and liquid with no energy? How are you then
separating them effectively? Is this something that you are using
commonly? I am having trouble understanding how this is all being fed into
a pipe, with no gas leaks, and then the gas is being forced downward,
somehow in sustained suspension in the liquid. How is this "feeding" with
no energy? What liquid are you using? How do you have two power sources?
Are you somehow capturing the kinetic energy of the liquid in a turbine?
More information please!
Regarding the H2S, we use simple metal filters that use iron sponge, waste
metal, or cheap nails. These have to be changed a few times per year, but
effectively manage H2S downstream of the reactor. I am unsure of how you
would deal with that situation if there are metal components in your
reactor, like a floating drum.
Saludos,
A
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:59 AM, bingham <bingham at zekes.com> wrote:
> We have found that many smaller plants use a floating dome to hold the
> gas. It is fairly
> effective to use lime water as the liquid under the dome and bubble the
> gas
> through it.
> Much of the CO2 is removed and takes up less volume in the dome.
>
> Our primary concern is H2S. It deteriorates the steel containers many have
> used and
> posses a safety hazard.
>
> You can compress almost any gas or liquid with almost no energy input if
> you have a deep shaft
> or a small mountain. Mix the gas and liquid together and feed it into a
> very strong pipe that
> in unaffected by H2S. When the mixture is at the bottom of the pipe the
> pressure is approximately
> one PSI for every two feet it has traveled down the pipe. At the bottom
> separate the liquid from the
> gas and you have two power sources. We use this method to compress gas for
> gas turbine generators.
> One of the weaknesses of gas turbines is the necessity to compress the
> fuel.
> The compressors rob power from the turbine lowering power output.
>
> Location is the key, not everyone lives next to a mountain or a deep cave,
> but the gas or pressurized
> liquid can be piped long distances because it is pressurized for almost
> nothing. You can use this
> method to replace steam in stationary steam generators or hydraulic
> motors.
> You are only limited
> by your imagination: your choice of the gas and liquid.
>
> Brent
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>
> *To:* For Discussion of Anaerobic
> Digestion<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Digestion] Compressing of biogas
>
> We go around this issue frequently, as end users often come up with the
> same idea. It is hard to tell them no, so we always take a fresh look
> under
> the circumstances. At the end of the day filtration of CO2 i always ruled
> out, and that means 40% of the volume of gas you are compressing serves no
> energetic purpose. Add that to the fact that methane does not like to be
> compressed, and we arrive again at a "no" response.
>
> The one option we always examine is the non-compressed transportation of
> large gas reservoirs. This we have tried for distances that are too long
> for a simple gas line, and short enough to be practical by cart. Since we
> can make durable gas reservoirs of any size and shape, this is not
> unfeasible. Once transported, the gas is connected and used as usual,
> while
> a second reservoir is filling. If you can create value for this use, and
> the transport logistics to not out-weight the value of the energy
> provided,
> you may have an option for success. Others have used large truck
> inner-tubes in the same way, that are then rolled down the street to the
> end
> use. I suspect that in certain locations, systems that considered
> low-pressure distribution could gain some traction.
>
> Saludos,
>
> A
>
> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:21 AM, Vianney Tumwesige <trustvianney at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Hello Harold,
>>
>> I completely agree withYvonne, it will be economically expensive to
>> compress the gas.
>>
>> P.S. Yvonne, could you send me a copy of the paper and ppt as well?
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Harold leffertstra <
>> haroldleffertstra at yahoo.no> wrote:
>>
>>> hello
>>> Got a question from the owner of a small biogass plant in Tanzania.
>>> He is expanding a small existing biogas plant to be able to digest waste
>>> from 200 households and manure from 100 cows.
>>> He is interested in using the biogas for fueling vehicles. In our part
>>> of
>>> the world we think it will be necessary with cleaning, uppgrading of the
>>> gas and compressing.
>>> Do any of you have experience/ideas about whether this is feasible for
>>> such a small plant?
>>> 1)What is necessary to use the biogas for fueling vehicles and 2) what
>>> are the technical and economical consequences?
>>> Thank you
>>> Harold Leffertstra
>>> Senior Advisor
>>> Norwegian Climate and Pollution Agency
>>> Oslo
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> for more information about digestion, see
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vianney Tumwesige
>> Director - Green Heat (U) Ltd [image: Picture]
>> P.O. Box 10235
>> Kampala-Uganda
>> 256 (0) 71 237 9889
>>
>> "The more people are self sufficient in cooking fuel, the more personal
>> and financial freedom they have." - Emma Casson
>>
>>
>> <http://trustvianney.wordpress.com/>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more information about digestion, see
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Alexander Eaton
> Sistema Biobolsa
> IRRI-Mexico
> RedBioLAC
>
> Mex cel: (55) 11522786
> US cel: 970 275 4505
>
> alex at irrimexico.org
> alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
>
> sistemabiobolsa.com
> www.irrimexico.org
> www.redbiolac.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
--
Alexander Eaton
Sistema Biobolsa
IRRI-Mexico
RedBioLAC
Mex cel: (55) 11522786
US cel: 970 275 4505
alex at irrimexico.org
alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
sistemabiobolsa.com
www.irrimexico.org
www.redbiolac.org
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