[Digestion] Attachment to previous Article - More scientific based research and questions

Alexander Eaton alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
Wed Oct 6 17:39:53 PDT 2010


Dr Karve,

Your innovation and work in the field is quite appreciated, and your system
really opens doors for us who are also not technically focused in the
biology of biogas, but rather its application to families and communities.
That is why it seems your use of food waste and loading rates based on gas
production for a family really widens the populations we may be able to work
with globally.  Do you have a paper or document that has this data and other
user data available?

Best,

Alex

On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Alexnder,
> to be quite frank, I do not call myself an expert in biogas technology. I
> developed my system as a layman. Being a biologist, I argued that since all
> industrial fermentation systems used sugar, why not try it in a biogas
> plant. Because sugar was costly, I used only 1 kg sugar in a biogas plant
> that consumed daily 40 kg cattle dung. To my surprise I found that I got
> about 700 to 800 litres of biogas, just 24 hours later. Since sugar was
> costly, I shifted to using flour of cereal grains, which also gave similar
> results. Then we tested spoilt milk, oilcakes of various edible and
> non-edible oilseeds and peels of fruits like banana, mango and papaya, and
> got similar results. We then constructed biogas plants geared to using food
> waste as feedstock. It was by trial and error, that we arrived at our
> present configuration which is just a conventional moving dome biogas plant.
> The rule of thumb is to use 1 g (dry weight) of food waste per litre of
> digester capacity.  When I started talking about our system in conferences
> on biogas, I used to be hooted out by the experts. Once they found out that
> I had no theoretical knowledge of the biogas plants, they would embarass me
> by asking questions like C:N ratio, volatile solids % etc. It was only after
> our system received the Ashden Award in London (2006), that the world
> started believing in me.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 7:00 AM, Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Dr. Karve,
>>
>> I recently had the pleasure of meeting your associate and representative
>> for Tanzania at a conference in Sweden.  He explained much of the same thing
>> about the ARTI system.  When you describe your system as primarily a biogas
>> generation system (as opposed to waste treatment), do you mean that you
>> optimize HRT and loading rates for biogas production, rather than balancing
>> biogas production with the reduction of organic load (TOC or COD?).
>> Reviewing the plans of your systems, it does not seem as though the vessel
>> itself holds massive differences with any other AD reactor, so can we assume
>> that this is a management practice, versus technology comparison?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Alexander,
>>> thanks for the correction. In our system, 1 kg (dry) food waste provides
>>> 1 kW electricity for 1 hour. I am absolutely sure of these figures, because
>>> we are daily generating electricity on our own campus by using food waste
>>> from our own hostel. If your calculations show our system to be 3 times as
>>> efficient as the one reported in the article, then it must be so. All I can
>>> claim is that our biogas production system is currently the cheapest and the
>>> most efficient biogas system in the world. Scientists of a prestigeous
>>> Institute of the Government of India had come to us to have a look at our
>>> biogas system, because using the same amount of waste, our system
>>> produced 10 times as much biogas as the two phase system developed by them.
>>> The report submitted by them to their bosses explained the difference in the
>>> performance of the two systems being due to the fact that their system was
>>> primarily a waste disposal system, whereas ours was primarily a biogas
>>> generating system. So far, we have installed about 5000 such biogas plants
>>> all over India and also about 50 on the African continent.
>>> Yours
>>> A.D.Karve
>>>
>>>   On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 2:47 AM, Alexander Eaton <
>>> alex at sistemabiobolsa.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dr. Karve:
>>>>
>>>> A small point, your energy conversion from gas volume to kW needs to be
>>>> modified.  Either the gas volume needs to be presented in a daily rate,
>>>> which therefore can be converted to power potential (kW, meaning X kW over
>>>> the 24 hours of a day), or you need to convert a volume of biogas into kWh,
>>>> a unit of energy.  This is important, as I am very interested in your post,
>>>> but it does not make sense as stated, and the two possible options are very
>>>> different.  I THINK you mean that 0.8 m3 of biogas can generate 1 kWh of
>>>> electricity (provide 1 kW of power for 1 hour).  Is this correct?
>>>>
>>>> Also, the discrepancy between house values could be a US to the Rest of
>>>> the World translation: the average US household uses 11,040 kWh annually, an
>>>> average of 920 kilowatt-hours (kWh) per month, or about 30 kWh per day.
>>>> That would means that by your calculation the food waste mentioned would
>>>> generate enough electricity for 80 homes in the US, or more than 3 times the
>>>> estimate in the article.  I think there may be something lost in
>>>> translation?  What do you think?  Could it be that the ARTI system can
>>>> produce 3 times the amount of energy as other food waste digesters?  Or are
>>>> you not taking the energy conversion in an internal combustion engine into
>>>> account, which would cut the raw energy value by about 3 times when
>>>> converting to electricity?
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 6:47 PM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Hooroo,
>>>>> our ARTI biogas system produces about 800 litres or 0.8 cubic
>>>>> meters biogas from 1 kg (dry weight) of food waste. It takes about 500
>>>>> litres (0.5 cubic m) to generate one kW electricity, if one uses an internal
>>>>> combustion engine to drive the generator.  The article reproduced by you
>>>>> says that 3 tons of food waste produces enough power to provide electricity
>>>>> to 25 houses for a day. Assuming that the food waste mentioned in the
>>>>> article has about 50% water, the three tons are reduced to a dry weight of
>>>>> 1.5 tons, which would produce, in a single phase ARTI biogas plant, about
>>>>> 1,200,000 litres or 1200 cubic meters of biogas, enough to generate about
>>>>> 2400 kW electricity. It is unfortunate that the article reproduced by you
>>>>> does not give figures, but I thnk that with food waste as rqw material, the
>>>>> ARTI biogas system might turn out to be more efficient in converting food
>>>>> waste into biogas. There are also factual mistakes in the article reproduced
>>>>> by you. It says that there are no methane producing bacteria in the human
>>>>> gut. This is not true. The methanogens are found in the guts of all animals.
>>>>> I also question the concept of a series of organisms converting cellulose to
>>>>> starch to sugar to organic acids to acetic acid to methane. An organism
>>>>> needs extra-cellular digestion only in the case of cellulose. Once it gets
>>>>> converted into glucose, it is taken into the cell and metabolised to the end
>>>>> by one and the same micro-organism.
>>>>> Yours
>>>>> A.D.Karve
>>>>>
>>>>>   On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Paul Harris <
>>>>> paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>    G’day All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A couple of people have asked for the attachment to an article I
>>>>>> reposted for Dhanesh Kumar [daquab4u at gmail.com]. I left it off
>>>>>> thinking it had exceeded the Listserver size limit but will try again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Happy Digesting,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOOROO
>>>>>>  Turning Trash Into Power
>>>>>> Biological Engineers Generate Natural Gas with Bacteria
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *October 1, 2006* — A new kind of waste digester uses two different
>>>>>> strains of bacteria in different tanks. This would normally take place in
>>>>>> the same environment, but microbiologists have now separated it into two
>>>>>> stages that increases natural-gas production. The technology increases
>>>>>> efficiency and can turn three tons of food scraps into enough energy to
>>>>>> power 25 homes for a day.
>>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *See also:*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Plants & Animals* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - Extreme Survival<http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/extreme_survival/>
>>>>>>    - Bacteria<http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/bacteria/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Earth & Climate* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/earth_climate/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - Energy and the Environment<http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/earth_climate/energy/>
>>>>>>    - Renewable Energy<http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/earth_climate/renewable_energy/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Matter & Energy* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - Electricity<http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/electricity/>
>>>>>>    - Organic Chemistry<http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/organic_chemistry/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Reference* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - Biodegradation<http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/b/biodegradation.htm>
>>>>>>    - Waste management<http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/w/waste_management.htm>
>>>>>>    - Biomass <http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/b/biomass.htm>
>>>>>>    - Sewage treatment<http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/s/sewage_treatment.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DAVIS, Calif. -- There's a new twist on the old adage, one man's trash
>>>>>> is another man's treasure. Now that trash may be another man's power.
>>>>>> Researchers in California are turning garbage into bio-gas that may one day
>>>>>> provide the electricity in your home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Trash could soon be powering your home. A new digester can transform
>>>>>> it into energy. It uses two strains of bacteria to convert waste into
>>>>>> bio-gas. Most digesters store both bacteria in the same tank, which makes
>>>>>> the process unpredictable and slow. But not this digester.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Zhang's process takes the two bacteria and separates them into two
>>>>>> separate environments," Dave Konwinski, the director of OnSite Power Systems
>>>>>> in Davis, Calif., tells DBIS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This new and improved digester is the brain child of Biological
>>>>>> Engineer Ruihong Zhang. She and her students at UC Davis first built its
>>>>>> prototype in the lab. She's thrilled her new technology is being put to use
>>>>>> in the real world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "It's a new technology ... So it's like a child grow into adult," she
>>>>>> says.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The digester will turn three tons of food scraps into energy for 25
>>>>>> houses a day. But it's not just for homes. The digester could be especially
>>>>>> useful to fuel processing plants. It s scheduled to be up and running this
>>>>>> fall. OnSite Power Systems plans to market it in several states in the next
>>>>>> couple of years, including California, Wisconsin and Minnesota.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We can actually scale a digester to fit their current operations,
>>>>>> fill it right at their operations, take the waste stream into the digester,
>>>>>> and the energy right back into the plant," Konwinski says. "It will make a
>>>>>> substantial dent in our current energy requirement for petroleum."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a win-win-win situation for the environment, industry and
>>>>>> consumers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *BACKGROUND:* Environmental engineers at the University of
>>>>>> California, Davis, are building a full-scale anaerobic digester that can
>>>>>> convert any type of solid organic waste into electricity -- even leftovers
>>>>>> from restaurants. The system is part of the $100,000 Sacramento Municipal
>>>>>> Utility District (SMUD pilot project), but an even larger digester system is
>>>>>> being put into place in San Francisco.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *HOW IT WORKS:* In the process, food waste is collected from
>>>>>> restaurants and institutions and then fed to bacteria that thrive in
>>>>>> low-oxygen environments. It's called anaerobic digestion, a naturally
>>>>>> occurring process of decomposition. One type of bacteria turns carbohydrates
>>>>>> into simple sugars, amino acids and fatty acids. A second group of bacteria
>>>>>> eats those compounds and turns them into hydrogen gas, carbon dioxide, and
>>>>>> acetic acid -- the primary component of vinegar. Then a third group of
>>>>>> bacteria takes those broken-down compounds and turns them into methane and
>>>>>> carbon dioxide. Between 60 and 80 percent becomes methane. The methane can
>>>>>> be used as fuel for an internal combustion engine that provides electricity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *TYPES OF DIGESTION:* Anaerobic digestion is not the same thing as
>>>>>> human digestion, since the type of bacteria that produce methane don't live
>>>>>> in the human digestive tract. Industrial anaerobic digesters can also
>>>>>> harness this natural process to treat waste, provide heat, and increase
>>>>>> nutrients in soil. They are most commonly used for sewage treatment and for
>>>>>> managing animal waste.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *BENEFITS:* The goal of SMUD is to obtain 20 percent of its
>>>>>> electricity from renewable sources such as wind, solar, and biodegradable
>>>>>> matter by 2011. Currently SMUD derives 10 percent of its electricity from
>>>>>> renewable sources, of which biomass accounts for 2.5 percent. The UC-Davis
>>>>>> digester would keep food and other biodegradable waste out of landfills;
>>>>>> food leftovers account for 18 percent of a landfill's contents. One tone of
>>>>>> leftover food can produce enough fuel to power 18 homes for one day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *WHAT ARE EXTREMOPHILES?* An extremophile is any microbe that thrives
>>>>>> in extreme conditions, such as temperature (extreme heat or cold), pressure,
>>>>>> salinity, low oxygen environments, or high concentrations of hostile
>>>>>> chemicals. Most extremophiles belong to a class known as archaeobacteria,
>>>>>> but certain species of worm, crustacean and krill can also be considered
>>>>>> extremophiles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc.<http://www.ieeeusa.org/>,
>>>>>> contributed to the information contained in the TV portion of this report.
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/ivanhoe.gif]<http://www.ivanhoe.com/ftk>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Note:** This story and accompanying video were originally produced
>>>>>> for the American Institute of Physics series Discoveries and
>>>>>> Breakthroughs in Science <http://www.aip.org/dbis/> by Ivanhoe
>>>>>> Broadcast News and are protected by copyright law. All rights reserved.
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Related Stories
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *New 'Digester' Converts Garbage To Energy<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041012093158.htm>
>>>>>> * (October 12, 2004) — UC Davis bioenvironmental engineer Ruihong
>>>>>> Zhang sees a vast untapped resource in lawn clippings, household table
>>>>>> scraps and other biodegradable materials: enough energy to keep the lights
>>>>>> burning in ...  > *read more*<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041012093158.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image:
>>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2010/04/100414083539-thumb.jpg]<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100414083539.htm>
>>>>>> *New Super Bacterium Doubles Hydrogen Gas Production<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100414083539.htm>
>>>>>> * (April 14, 2010) — Hydrogen gas is today used primarily for
>>>>>> manufacturing chemicals, but a bright future is predicted for it as a
>>>>>> vehicle fuel in combination with fuel cells. In order to produce hydrogen
>>>>>> gas in a way ...  > *read more*<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100414083539.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Synthesizing Gas, Making Energy<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070911155512.htm>
>>>>>> * (September 12, 2007) — A way to convert natural gas into raw
>>>>>> materials for the chemical industry and generate power as a by-product could
>>>>>> lead to more environmental benign manufacturing processes. Making synthesis
>>>>>> gas -- a ...  > *read more*<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070911155512.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sweet Smell Of Success: New UF System Helps Dairy Farms Reduce Odors<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001122183221.htm>
>>>>>> * (November 24, 2000) — With hundreds or thousands of cows eating,
>>>>>> drinking and, well, doing what cows do naturally, dairy farms have earned a
>>>>>> reputation for bad odors. Combine that with urban sprawl that brings city
>>>>>> ...  > *read more*<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001122183221.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Storing Green Electricity as Natural Gas<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100505113227.htm>
>>>>>> * (May 5, 2010) — Renewable electricity can be transformed into a
>>>>>> substitute for natural gas. Until now, electricity was generated from gas.
>>>>>> Now, a German-Austrian cooperation wants to go in the opposite direction. In
>>>>>> ...  > *read more*<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100505113227.htm>
>>>>>>  Search ScienceD <http://www.sciencedaily.com/subscribe/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of Sciences,
>>>>>> The  University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph
>>>>>> : +61 8 8303 7880      Fax   : +61 8 8303 4386
>>>>>> mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
>>>>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains
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>>>>>> other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No
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>>>>>> viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the
>>>>>> recipient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>>>> Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ***
>>>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>>>> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>>>>>
>>>>> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Digestion mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexander Eaton
>>>> Sistema Biobolsa
>>>> IRRI-Mexico
>>>>
>>>> Mex cel: (55) 11522786
>>>> US cel: 970 275 4505
>>>>
>>>> alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
>>>> alexanderb.eaton at gmail.com
>>>> sistemabiobolsa.com
>>>> www.irrimexico.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>> Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ***
>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>>>
>>> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>> Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexander Eaton
>> Sistema Biobolsa
>> IRRI-Mexico
>>
>> Mex cel: (55) 11522786
>> US cel: 970 275 4505
>>
>> alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
>> alexanderb.eaton at gmail.com
>> sistemabiobolsa.com
>> www.irrimexico.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>> Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
> Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>


-- 
Alexander Eaton
Sistema Biobolsa
IRRI-Mexico

Mex cel: (55) 11522786
US cel: 970 275 4505

alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
alexanderb.eaton at gmail.com
sistemabiobolsa.com
www.irrimexico.org
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