[Digestion] to Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 24
Sumedh Bapat
sumedh.bapat at gmail.com
Thu Oct 7 03:23:10 CDT 2010
Dear All,
I have never accused anyone for anything. No intention of doing that either.
I know and have tested sugar and flour myself several times. I am saying the
discrepancies can be found in Dr Karve's email itself. He says foodwaste
generated biogas and food waste containing 50% dry matter/Solids. However
you can see he has clarified that its cooked rice of 50% and corrected the
food waste to 20%. Sugars obviously degrade in 24 hours and even I have
agreed to it in my mail. Here it is an example to what I have mentioned that
whenever you question about the statements the answers quickly disguise
themselves into some other forms.
I still honour Dr Karve's work as a sociologist but the marketing should be
made in the correct platform. And yes the flour mills in India are too messy
and we have tried collecting flour wasted on the floor. Its not recommended
as there is a lot of dust and mud in it sometimes which might clog the
system. *Still - Dr.Karve - please explain in detail what exactly happens
inside the "special" design of your digester that you can extract so much
gas from food waste. Please base your calculations/reports with the food
waste analysis as well. Please specify the grease content and Nitrogen you
are assuming while calculating the gas production. Please define what
happens to the Nitrogen and the sulphur content in it. Are there any
problems of Siloxanes in the generated gas from food waste?*
Kind regards,
Sumedh Bapat
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:44 AM, <digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14 (Choppalli Venkata Krishna)
> 2. Re: Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 17 (Anand Karve)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: 7 Oct 2010 05:20:43 -0000
> From: "Choppalli Venkata Krishna" <krishnacreat1 at rediffmail.com>
> To: <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14
> Message-ID:
> <
> 1286279771.S.28141.7456.F.H.TmRpZ2VzdGlvbi1yZXF1ZXN0QGxpc3RzLmJpb2VuZQBEaWdlc3Rpb24gRGlnZXN0LCBWb2wgMiwgSXNzdWU_.f4-234-222.lb.1286428843.27969 at webmail.rediffmail.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Paul
>
> You are absolutely correct. I am in this field from 1979. All I learnt was
> that the Biogas owner must have her conveniences of Input of water and dung
> in right proportion. In Kerala latex has been a bliss in disguise for Biogas
> production.
>
> Regards
>
> -Krishna
>
>
>
> On Tue, 05 Oct 2010 17:26:11 +0530 wrote
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>
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>
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>
>
> 1. Re: More scientific based research and questions (Edward Matos)
>
>
>
> 2. Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14 (william)
>
>
>
> 3. 1. Re: Inoculation for Small Digesters (P M Allison)
>
>
>
> 4. Re: (no subject) (Igor ?krjanec)
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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> Message: 1
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>
> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 09:55:33 +0300
>
>
>
> From: Edward Matos
>
>
>
> To: , "'For Discussion of Anaerobic
>
>
>
> Digestion'"
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] More scientific based research and questions
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> Message-ID:
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>
>
> Dear Paul,
>
>
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>
> A comprehensive summary of the state of the art - thank you. I'm afraid I
>
>
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> didn't receive the "interesting paper" you attached. Please could you send
> a
>
>
>
> link, or the title+authour+year?
>
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> Regards,
>
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> Ed
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>
> From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
> [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Paul
> Harris
>
>
>
> Sent: 05 October 2010 04:10
>
>
>
> To: 'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'
>
>
>
> Subject: [Digestion] More scientific based research and questions
>
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>
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>
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>
> Sir,
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> Greetings....
>
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>
>
>
> I have been seeing many queries posed by many persons, I do not understand
>
>
>
> where these persons are from, or what work is done at the feild level, so
>
>
>
> many theories projected, I have been in this feild for 30 odd yrs, in a
>
>
>
> normal system u use cowdung/manure as the main feed substarte, and we have
>
>
>
> been following this very closely, any amount of manipulation does not help,
>
>
>
> we have seen number of biogas plants fail to produce gas after
>
>
>
> overloading..with unwanted chemicals/ biological products particularly when
>
>
>
> the temp in fall of the year, there is not much u can do, but try save the
>
>
>
> heat loss by insulation,which is very pratical when temp falls below 10
>
>
>
> degrees. I wish to share my little knowledge and experience
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> Methane is one of final product, and its production is based on the
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> avialbility of Hydrogen based compounds, we have seen the addation of oil
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> seed cake, we use mostly cakes which are not utilised for cattle, castor
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> cake, Jatropha, sopilt oil seed cake, ground nut, waste cooking oil, if
> used
>
>
>
> in a small qty, it can keep producing biogas of higher quality, I do not
>
>
>
> want to indulge in the information which is known, the various process of
>
>
>
> anaerobic digestion....when a new product is introduced, it must be
>
>
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> introduced gradually in small quantity,,,,, I have been using coffee husk
>
>
>
> C:N (1:23) better than cattle dung which is approx (1:30),,,, one of the
>
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>
> problem we face is higher production of H2S(hydrogen sulphide) , on the
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> other hand we have recently seen more farmers are now using the waste water
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> from the rubber sheet (latex is collected, made to cogulate by adding
> formic
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>
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> acid) after 3 hrs, the cogulated latex slab is made to pass through steel
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> rollers, which removes the liquid portion, which is rich in sugars and
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> carbohydrates, they are use for feeding the biogas plants, there is no need
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> of dung, though initially these were solely dung fed bioas plants....I do
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> not have much understanding of the microbiology...but it works, it does not
>
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> cost the farmer anything, it has become a blessing in disguise ,for many
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> years, it was a nuisance, until someone discovered the potential of this
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> waste water.
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> Methane production can also be increased, by providing the methonabactera
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> with right amount of nutrients, these are trace elements, they need in
> small
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>
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> qty, of which, ferrous (iron) cobalt, nickel, molybendum....these quantity
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> needs to be added monthly, or when the gas production (methane)
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> falls.....from my experience from the field, this technology has been
>
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> staright jackted with the usage of animal manure....all the while the
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> research consideration was on C:N ...thus when higher protein products
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> were used, or if the product is much more than organic/ compound, system
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> fail.... Only recently a new line of research is taking place, looking
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> closely on hydrogenated compounds (C:H), that is where oil seed cake is
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> found to be a good product, a safe candidate for increasing Methane
>
>
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> .....waste food have good potential, because of more hydrogen products,
> like
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> fats and oil....now waste management have adopted this product.....
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> Most of the installed biogas plant at family level fails for number of
>
>
>
> reason, on of the main ones, is lack feed material and water, both are
>
>
>
> closely linked ....see this in perspective, the Indian Insitute of Science,
>
>
>
> Bangalore's rural energy wing - Centre for science and technology have
>
>
>
> developed a a new design called Plug Flow...it take care to over come many
>
>
>
> of the problems associated, as the feed material is mostly biomass in their
>
>
>
> native state, always thought that methane production take place only when
>
>
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> biomass is submerged in water, no it is not necessary, as as long as
> biomass
>
>
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> is confined to a close place /devoid of air methane will be generated, best
>
>
>
> example in nature is the termite ,they consume all the cellulose material,
>
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> certain type of bacteria in their guts, break the cellulose down with
>
>
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> enzyme, producing host material, ..........
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>
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>
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> Below is an interesting paper attached.....
>
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>
> For Dhanesh Kumar [daquab4u at gmail.com]
>
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> Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of Sciences, The
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>
>
> University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61
>
>
>
> 8 8303 7880 Fax :+61 8 8303 4386 mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
>
>
>
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
>
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> Message: 2
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> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:02:03 +0800
>
>
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> From: "william"
>
>
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> To:
>
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> Subject: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 14
>
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> Message-ID:
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> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
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> reply-type=original
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> Dear Ron,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm working on a proposal for MSW plant for 250 Ton per day, it is funded
> by
>
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> the local government, can you give me a proposal?
>
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>
> William
>
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> SP MULTITECH RENEWABLE ENERGY S/B
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> william at spmultitech.com
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 3
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> Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 22:56:11 +1100
>
>
>
> From: "P M Allison"
>
>
>
> To: "digestion"
>
>
>
> Subject: [Digestion] 1. Re: Inoculation for Small Digesters
>
>
>
> Message-ID:
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>
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>
> For an excellent AD starter culture I have used the contents of a freshly
> slaughtered cow's stomach, preferably the first unit which contains the
> methano-bacteria, rather than the others.
>
>
>
> I have also trialed septic tank biological cultures in dried and pelleted
> forms as long as anaerobes are part of the cultural mix.
>
>
>
> Peter.
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
>
>
> Digestion mailing list
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>
> Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
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>
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> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>
>
>
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>
>
>
> Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
> http://info.bioenergylists.org
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
>
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> Message: 4
>
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> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 13:55:26 +0200
>
>
>
> From: Igor ?krjanec
>
>
>
> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
>
>
>
>
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> Subject: Re: [Digestion] (no subject)
>
>
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> Message-ID:
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
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> Na 4.10.2010 20:15, Arturo ?valos je pisal:
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> >
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> > Hello all
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> >
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> > Does someone know something about use ferric chloride to reduce the
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> > sulfur content in the biogas?
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> >
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> > Thanks for the information
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> >
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> > / /
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> >
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> > Arturo
>
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> >
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> >
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> > _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> > Digestion mailing list
>
>
>
> > Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hallo Arturo
>
>
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>
> Ferric chloride is normally use for a neutralizations of H_2 S. Hydrogen
>
>
>
> sulfide is slightly soluble in water and acts as a weak acid
>
>
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> , because of this is harmful for
>
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> a CHP unit.
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> H_2 S is a product of sulfate-reducing bacteria
>
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> which are also
>
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> present in biogas reactor. Sulfate-reducing bacteria
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> use present
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> sulfats from substrates to oxidize the organic matter.
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> Hydrogen sulfide reacts with metal ions to form metal sulfides
>
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> (H_2 S + FeCl_2 ? FeS + 2 HCl).
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> Iron sulfide is not soluble and it is not problematic for a biogas
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> process and CHP unit.
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> When biogas plant works normally hydrogen sulfide is not problematic,
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> because of its oxidation with aerobic bacteria to elementary sulphur.
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> Bye
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> Igor
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 14:14:53 +0800
> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> To: paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au, For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 17
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=qmdmkqCe68bjD2BE616VsP_eo=bnm7juv+bw0 at mail.gmail.com<bnm7juv%2Bbw0 at mail.gmail.com>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Dear all,
> I fail to understand what Mr. Bapat is so riled about. Cooked rice may
> contain 50% water, fruits may contain 80% or bread may contain only 20%
> moisture. Therefore, in every one of my postings I have specifically
> mentioned the feedstock in dry weight units. Mr. Bapat claims flour of
> cereal grains to be impractical. Let me enlighten the readers that
> every city and most villages in India have flour mills. The flour dust that
> falls on the floor is sold by the flour mill owner at the end of the day at
> about US Cents 7 per kg. Grain generally costs five times as much. We use
> sugar in its pure form only in the laboratory experiments but readers
> should
> please note that starch and cellulose are forms of sugar, and they produce
> the same amount of biogas per unit weight as pure crystalline sugar. And
> sugar is not so impractical either.When one uses fruit waste as feed
> stock, one is using the sugar in the fruits to produce biogas. Mr. Bapat
> wants the discussions to be on an academic level, but when I mention
> the biogas yield per unit of sugar or starch, he accuses me of being
> impractical.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Paul Harris <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
> >wrote:
>
> > G?day All,
> >
> >
> >
> > First of all I keep telling people I am just Mr, but thanks for the
> honour.
> >
> >
> >
> > Second, although I am ?moderator? of this list it is actually an
> > unmoderated list, so I don?t check each message (if I had to check each
> > message it would slow discussion somewhat and I would get very little
> other
> > work done). I see my main job as ?cooling things? when discussion
> > occasionally gets a bit heated and helping people with difficulties like
> > joining or posting.
> >
> >
> >
> > Third remember that the membership is very varied, and I think this is
> one
> > of the strengths of the group. There are biologists who can name the
> > bacteria but may not be good at numbers, engineers who don?t care how
> > digestion works but can calculate things, ?back yard? size operators and
> > commercial operators and people from simple rural backgrounds as well as
> > those from advanced technologies and we can all help each other.
> >
> >
> >
> > In theory (thanks to Dr David Fulford) 1 kg of sugar gives 865 litres of
> > biogas, so Dr Karves figures are ballpark. This will provide 0.27kW
> > continuous power at 100% efficiency (70% methane, 39MJ/m3 for those who
> need
> > to check!) or about 50 W electricity (this is at 20% efficiency) ? this
> is
> > where the figures may diverge but we need to make sure we are talking
> about
> > the same thing (you may be able to run a 1 kW generator for an hour but
> it
> > may be at no load).
> >
> >
> >
> > There was a discussion a while back on the old list about standardising
> > terms, which I have transferred to
> > http://biogas.wikispaces.com/Data+to+measure, so let?s all try to use
> the
> > same terminology.
> >
> >
> >
> > There are some good points made in most of the posts (I am only skimming
> > through the longer ones as I am meant to be marking essays) so let?s try
> to
> > be diplomatic and helpful (as is usually the case).
> >
> >
> >
> > Happy digesting,
> >
> > HOOROO
> >
> >
> >
> > Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of Sciences, The
> > University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph :
> +61
> > 8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386
> > mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
> >
> >
> >
> > CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
> >
> > This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains
> > information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not
> the
> > intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and
> immediately
> > delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by
> anyone
> > other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No
> > representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of
> > viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the
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> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:
> > digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Sumedh Bapat
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 7 October 2010 2:03 PM
> > *To:* digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 17
> >
> >
> >
> > *Dear Srinivas,*
> >
> > *Sometimes it really surprises me weather we really know what we are
> > talking about in this list. 50% TS is a wrong postulation. You will
> > never get more than 25% TS in fresh food waste. Also as asked before by
> me,
> > please explain how will you get so much gas by practical experience and
> > support it by theory. These ridiculous statements are made to market the
> > Biogas plants of a particular type and not to promote the biogas
> industry.
> > This is an utterly selfish motive. *
> >
> > *When I joined this list, I had an impression that this is not a Biogas
> > product marketing platform but a 100% academic platform. I can see that
> some
> > members are purely mailing on this list I wonder how Dr.Paul Harris
> allows
> > such communication on this list without taking any kind of objection to
> > it. When i had emailed my objections to such things in the past, someone
> had
> > claimed that put sugar and it gets degraded in 24 hours. I agree to it
> but
> > is it practically affordable to do such acticities. People talk about
> > wheat flour for biogas plants. please explain how can this be possible in
> > practical sense. Wont it be affordable to use LPG for making tea rather
> than
> > putting 1 Kg sugar in the biogas plant ? Is any technology a good
> technology
> > unless it is practically anc commercially viable ? What sense does it
> make
> > when people postulate gas generation figures on food waste and when you
> try
> > to question them, they support it with gas from sugar or flour ? Please
> ask
> > this question to yourself before you support such ridiculous statements
> > here, specially developed only from the sales and marketing perspective.
> > Please do not add about what your product is and please help keep this
> site
> > only academic or else this site will also become a rat race for product
> > salesmen. Had I wanted to do this, we would have started putting putting
> up
> > my presentations here and also started marketing our larger plants of 1-5
> > tons that we have done in India so far.*
> >
> > *These are my personal opinions and suggestions.*
> >
> > *Kind Regards,*
> >
> > *Sumedh Bapat*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:56 PM, <
> > digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
> >
> > Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
> > digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > digestion-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: 1. Re: Inoculation for Small Digesters (Alexander Eaton)
> > 2. Re: Attachment to previous Article - More scientific based
> > research and questions (Anand Karve)
> > 3. Re: size and cost of a small domestic biogas plant (Duncan Martin)
> > 4. Re: Eliminating Sulfides. (Igor ?krjanec)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 10:45:18 -0600
> > From: Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>
> > To: For discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> > <digestion at listserv.repp.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] 1. Re: Inoculation for Small Digesters
> > Message-ID:
> > <AANLkTikAsjbvk4LOv5GLvgPkz9rt0Xop6OBUUqdDpnye at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Thanks Peter. This is how this thread started: we use paunch manure from
> > the first unit, but it is a stinky job, and not super easy to transport.
> > This is only an issue as we are ramping our installations up to 5-10 per
> > week. I was hoping to find a comparably effective method that maybe
> > cultured the same bacteria, or at least concentrated the stomach
> material.
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > A
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 5:56 AM, P M Allison <pmallison at optusnet.com.au
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > For an excellent AD starter culture I have used the contents of a
> freshly
> > > slaughtered cow's stomach, preferably the first unit which contains the
> > > methano-bacteria, rather than the others.
> > > I have also trialed septic tank biological cultures in dried and
> pelleted
> > > forms as long as anaerobes are part of the cultural mix.
> > > Peter.
> > > ____________________________________
> > > Digestion mailing list
> > > Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > > Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
> > > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexander Eaton
> > Sistema Biobolsa
> > IRRI-Mexico
> >
> > Mex cel: (55) 11522786
> > US cel: 970 275 4505
> >
> > alex at sistemabiobolsa.com
> > alexanderb.eaton at gmail.com
> > sistemabiobolsa.com
> > www.irrimexico.org
> > ____________________________________
> > Digestion mailing list
> > Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> > Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
> > http://info.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:47:18 +0800
> > From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> > To: paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au, For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> > <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Attachment to previous Article - More
> > scientific based research and questions
> > Message-ID:
> > <AANLkTikiegvQRR3HowhYq5PM6hXsws+vrR6bH57PXCCo at mail.gmail.com<AANLkTikiegvQRR3HowhYq5PM6hXsws%2BvrR6bH57PXCCo at mail.gmail.com>
> <AANLkTikiegvQRR3HowhYq5PM6hXsws%2BvrR6bH57PXCCo at mail.gmail.com<AANLkTikiegvQRR3HowhYq5PM6hXsws%252BvrR6bH57PXCCo at mail.gmail.com>
> >
> > >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >
> > Dear Hooroo,
> > our ARTI biogas system produces about 800 litres or 0.8 cubic meters
> biogas
> > from 1 kg (dry weight) of food waste. It takes about 500 litres (0.5
> cubic
> > m) to generate one kW electricity, if one uses an internal combustion
> > engine
> > to drive the generator. The article reproduced by you says that 3 tons
> of
> > food waste produces enough power to provide electricity to 25 houses for
> a
> > day. Assuming that the food waste mentioned in the article has about 50%
> > water, the three tons are reduced to a dry weight of 1.5 tons, which
> would
> > produce, in a single phase ARTI biogas plant, about 1,200,000 litres or
> > 1200
> > cubic meters of biogas, enough to generate about 2400 kW electricity. It
> is
> > unfortunate that the article reproduced by you does not give figures, but
> I
> > thnk that with food waste as rqw material, the ARTI biogas system might
> > turn
> > out to be more efficient in converting food waste into biogas. There are
> > also factual mistakes in the article reproduced by you. It says that
> there
> > are no methane producing bacteria in the human gut. This is not true. The
> > methanogens are found in the guts of all animals. I also question the
> > concept of a series of organisms converting cellulose to starch to sugar
> to
> > organic acids to acetic acid to methane. An organism needs extra-cellular
> > digestion only in the case of cellulose. Once it gets converted into
> > glucose, it is taken into the cell and metabolised to the end by one and
> > the
> > same micro-organism.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Paul Harris <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > G?day All,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A couple of people have asked for the attachment to an article I
> reposted
> > > for Dhanesh Kumar [daquab4u at gmail.com]. I left it off thinking it had
> > > exceeded the Listserver size limit but will try again.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Happy Digesting,
> > >
> > > HOOROO
> > > Turning Trash Into Power
> > > Biological Engineers Generate Natural Gas with Bacteria
> > >
> > > *October 1, 2006* ? A new kind of waste digester uses two different
> > > strains of bacteria in different tanks. This would normally take place
> in
> > > the same environment, but microbiologists have now separated it into
> two
> > > stages that increases natural-gas production. The technology increases
> > > efficiency and can turn three tons of food scraps into enough energy to
> > > power 25 homes for a day.
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > *See also:*
> > >
> > > *Plants & Animals* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/>
> > >
> > > - Extreme Survival<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/extreme_survival/>
> > > - Bacteria <
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/plants_animals/bacteria/
> > >
> > >
> > > *Earth & Climate* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/earth_climate/>
> > >
> > > - Energy and the Environment<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/earth_climate/energy/>
> > > - Renewable Energy<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/earth_climate/renewable_energy/>
> > >
> > > *Matter & Energy* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/>
> > >
> > > - Electricity<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/electricity/>
> > > - Organic Chemistry<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/matter_energy/organic_chemistry/>
> > >
> > > *Reference* <http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/>
> > >
> > > - Biodegradation<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/b/biodegradation.htm>
> > > - Waste management<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/w/waste_management.htm>
> > > - Biomass <http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/b/biomass.htm>
> > > - Sewage treatment<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/s/sewage_treatment.htm>
> > >
> > > DAVIS, Calif. -- There's a new twist on the old adage, one man's trash
> is
> > > another man's treasure. Now that trash may be another man's power.
> > > Researchers in California are turning garbage into bio-gas that may one
> > day
> > > provide the electricity in your home.
> > >
> > > Trash could soon be powering your home. A new digester can transform it
> > > into energy. It uses two strains of bacteria to convert waste into
> > bio-gas.
> > > Most digesters store both bacteria in the same tank, which makes the
> > process
> > > unpredictable and slow. But not this digester.
> > >
> > > "Zhang's process takes the two bacteria and separates them into two
> > > separate environments," Dave Konwinski, the director of OnSite Power
> > Systems
> > > in Davis, Calif., tells DBIS.
> > >
> > > This new and improved digester is the brain child of Biological
> Engineer
> > > Ruihong Zhang. She and her students at UC Davis first built its
> prototype
> > in
> > > the lab. She's thrilled her new technology is being put to use in the
> > real
> > > world.
> > >
> > > "It's a new technology ... So it's like a child grow into adult," she
> > says.
> > >
> > >
> > > The digester will turn three tons of food scraps into energy for 25
> > houses
> > > a day. But it's not just for homes. The digester could be especially
> > useful
> > > to fuel processing plants. It s scheduled to be up and running this
> fall.
> > > OnSite Power Systems plans to market it in several states in the next
> > couple
> > > of years, including California, Wisconsin and Minnesota.
> > >
> > > "We can actually scale a digester to fit their current operations, fill
> > it
> > > right at their operations, take the waste stream into the digester, and
> > the
> > > energy right back into the plant," Konwinski says. "It will make a
> > > substantial dent in our current energy requirement for petroleum."
> > >
> > > It's a win-win-win situation for the environment, industry and
> consumers.
> > >
> > > *BACKGROUND:* Environmental engineers at the University of California,
> > > Davis, are building a full-scale anaerobic digester that can convert
> any
> > > type of solid organic waste into electricity -- even leftovers from
> > > restaurants. The system is part of the $100,000 Sacramento Municipal
> > Utility
> > > District (SMUD pilot project), but an even larger digester system is
> > being
> > > put into place in San Francisco.
> > >
> > > *HOW IT WORKS:* In the process, food waste is collected from
> restaurants
> > > and institutions and then fed to bacteria that thrive in low-oxygen
> > > environments. It's called anaerobic digestion, a naturally occurring
> > process
> > > of decomposition. One type of bacteria turns carbohydrates into simple
> > > sugars, amino acids and fatty acids. A second group of bacteria eats
> > those
> > > compounds and turns them into hydrogen gas, carbon dioxide, and acetic
> > acid
> > > -- the primary component of vinegar. Then a third group of bacteria
> takes
> > > those broken-down compounds and turns them into methane and carbon
> > dioxide.
> > > Between 60 and 80 percent becomes methane. The methane can be used as
> > fuel
> > > for an internal combustion engine that provides electricity.
> > >
> > > *TYPES OF DIGESTION:* Anaerobic digestion is not the same thing as
> human
> > > digestion, since the type of bacteria that produce methane don't live
> in
> > the
> > > human digestive tract. Industrial anaerobic digesters can also harness
> > this
> > > natural process to treat waste, provide heat, and increase nutrients in
> > > soil. They are most commonly used for sewage treatment and for managing
> > > animal waste.
> > >
> > > *BENEFITS:* The goal of SMUD is to obtain 20 percent of its electricity
> > > from renewable sources such as wind, solar, and biodegradable matter by
> > > 2011. Currently SMUD derives 10 percent of its electricity from
> renewable
> > > sources, of which biomass accounts for 2.5 percent. The UC-Davis
> digester
> > > would keep food and other biodegradable waste out of landfills; food
> > > leftovers account for 18 percent of a landfill's contents. One tone of
> > > leftover food can produce enough fuel to power 18 homes for one day.
> > >
> > > *WHAT ARE EXTREMOPHILES?* An extremophile is any microbe that thrives
> in
> > > extreme conditions, such as temperature (extreme heat or cold),
> pressure,
> > > salinity, low oxygen environments, or high concentrations of hostile
> > > chemicals. Most extremophiles belong to a class known as
> archaeobacteria,
> > > but certain species of worm, crustacean and krill can also be
> considered
> > > extremophiles.
> > >
> > > *The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, Inc.<
> > http://www.ieeeusa.org/>,
> > > contributed to the information contained in the TV portion of this
> > report.
> > > *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [image: http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/ivanhoe.gif]<
> > http://www.ivanhoe.com/ftk>
> > >
> > > *Note:** This story and accompanying video were originally produced for
> > > the American Institute of Physics series Discoveries and Breakthroughs
> in
> > > Science <http://www.aip.org/dbis/> by Ivanhoe Broadcast News and are
> > > protected by copyright law. All rights reserved.*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ads by Google<
> >
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> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
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> >
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> > >
> > >
> > > *Caterpillar Power Plants<
> >
> http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=BJGjnJQyqTLzTOpLNcJDZrIUDpK6S5wGuvcmjDMCNtwHgmBcQAhgCINKg9AEoCDgAUJOChtX4_____wFg5aLlg6wOsgEUd3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkYWlseS5jb23IAQHaAUlodHRwOi8vd3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkYWlseS5jb20vdmlkZW9zLzIwMDYvMTAwMi10dXJuaW5nX3RyYXNoX2ludG9fcG93ZXIuaHRtyAK2h5UMqAMB6AOUBegDkQXoA-kB6AMM6AO4A_UDAAQARQ&num=2&sig=AGiWqtyVcxDzJNoChkjkCMYk4Jy0EQJI1Q&client=ca-pub-1787672658759074&adurl=http://www.catpowerplants.com/opt/sweeps.asp%3Fs%3DO3WQATCM%26src
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> > > www.catpowerplants.com<
> >
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> > >
> > >
> > > *Renewable Energy<
> >
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> > >
> > > *
> > > Deepen your knowledge about the energy sources of the future.
> > > knowledge.allianz.com/energy-future<
> >
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> > >
> > >
> > > *Green Fuels - Biodiesel<
> >
> http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=B8LTFJQyqTLzTOpLNcJDZrIUD5pnH1QG6ouvFC8CNtwGA8QQQBBgEINKg9AEoCDgAUMWBlbj______wFg5aLlg6wOsgEUd3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkYWlseS5jb23IAQHaAUlodHRwOi8vd3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkYWlseS5jb20vdmlkZW9zLzIwMDYvMTAwMi10dXJuaW5nX3RyYXNoX2ludG9fcG93ZXIuaHRtgAIBqQJVQKDCOJC6PqgDAegDlAXoA5EF6APpAegDDOgDuAP1AwAEAEU&num=4&sig=AGiWqtzDfYmhQIAUn4uZhP6UNZfgexYNGA&client=ca-pub-1787672658759074&adurl=http://www.greenfuels.co.uk
> > >
> > > *
> > > Safe, reliable, automated home and commercial biodiesel processors
> > > www.greenfuels.co.uk<
> >
> http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=B8LTFJQyqTLzTOpLNcJDZrIUD5pnH1QG6ouvFC8CNtwGA8QQQBBgEINKg9AEoCDgAUMWBlbj______wFg5aLlg6wOsgEUd3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkYWlseS5jb23IAQHaAUlodHRwOi8vd3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkYWlseS5jb20vdmlkZW9zLzIwMDYvMTAwMi10dXJuaW5nX3RyYXNoX2ludG9fcG93ZXIuaHRtgAIBqQJVQKDCOJC6PqgDAegDlAXoA5EF6APpAegDDOgDuAP1AwAEAEU&num=4&sig=AGiWqtzDfYmhQIAUn4uZhP6UNZfgexYNGA&client=ca-pub-1787672658759074&adurl=http://www.greenfuels.co.uk
> > >
> > >
> > > *Waste to Energy<
> >
> http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=Bcti8JQyqTLzTOpLNcJDZrIUDufWgwAGJlP2KFcCNtwGw6gEQBRgFINKg9AEoCDgAUNmB3ZAFYOWi5YOsDrIBFHd3dy5zY2llbmNlZGFpbHkuY29tyAEB2gFJaHR0cDovL3d3dy5zY2llbmNlZGFpbHkuY29tL3ZpZGVvcy8yMDA2LzEwMDItdHVybmluZ190cmFzaF9pbnRvX3Bvd2VyLmh0bakCVUCgwjiQuj6oAwHoA5QF6AORBegD6QHoAwzoA7gD9QMABABF&num=5&sig=AGiWqtxR6iIGICyKNV_V_vPXI3PXBoXdog&client=ca-pub-1787672658759074&adurl=http://www.bauerw2e.com
> > >
> > > *
> > > Converting waste to energy Turn waste into fuel
> > > www.bauerw2e.com<
> >
> http://googleads.g.doubleclick.net/aclk?sa=l&ai=Bcti8JQyqTLzTOpLNcJDZrIUDufWgwAGJlP2KFcCNtwGw6gEQBRgFINKg9AEoCDgAUNmB3ZAFYOWi5YOsDrIBFHd3dy5zY2llbmNlZGFpbHkuY29tyAEB2gFJaHR0cDovL3d3dy5zY2llbmNlZGFpbHkuY29tL3ZpZGVvcy8yMDA2LzEwMDItdHVybmluZ190cmFzaF9pbnRvX3Bvd2VyLmh0bakCVUCgwjiQuj6oAwHoA5QF6AORBegD6QHoAwzoA7gD9QMABABF&num=5&sig=AGiWqtxR6iIGICyKNV_V_vPXI3PXBoXdog&client=ca-pub-1787672658759074&adurl=http://www.bauerw2e.com
> > >
> > > Related Stories
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > *New 'Digester' Converts Garbage To Energy<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041012093158.htm>
> > > * (October 12, 2004) ? UC Davis bioenvironmental engineer Ruihong Zhang
> > > sees a vast untapped resource in lawn clippings, household table scraps
> > and
> > > other biodegradable materials: enough energy to keep the lights burning
> > in
> > > ... > *read more*<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041012093158.htm>
> > >
> > > [image:
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2010/04/100414083539-thumb.jpg]<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100414083539.htm>
> > > *New Super Bacterium Doubles Hydrogen Gas Production<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100414083539.htm>
> > > * (April 14, 2010) ? Hydrogen gas is today used primarily for
> > > manufacturing chemicals, but a bright future is predicted for it as a
> > > vehicle fuel in combination with fuel cells. In order to produce
> hydrogen
> > > gas in a way ... > *read more*<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100414083539.htm>
> > >
> > > *Synthesizing Gas, Making Energy<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070911155512.htm>
> > > * (September 12, 2007) ? A way to convert natural gas into raw
> materials
> > > for the chemical industry and generate power as a by-product could lead
> > to
> > > more environmental benign manufacturing processes. Making synthesis gas
> > -- a
> > > ... > *read more*<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070911155512.htm>
> > >
> > > *Sweet Smell Of Success: New UF System Helps Dairy Farms Reduce Odors<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001122183221.htm>
> > > * (November 24, 2000) ? With hundreds or thousands of cows eating,
> > > drinking and, well, doing what cows do naturally, dairy farms have
> earned
> > a
> > > reputation for bad odors. Combine that with urban sprawl that brings
> city
> > > ... > *read more*<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2000/11/001122183221.htm>
> > >
> > > *Storing Green Electricity as Natural Gas<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100505113227.htm>
> > > * (May 5, 2010) ? Renewable electricity can be transformed into a
> > > substitute for natural gas. Until now, electricity was generated from
> > gas.
> > > Now, a German-Austrian cooperation wants to go in the opposite
> direction.
> > In
> > > ... > *read more*<
> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100505113227.htm>
> > > Search ScienceD <http://www.sciencedaily.com/subscribe/>
> > >
> > > Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of Sciences,
> The
> > > University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph
> :
> > +61
> > > 8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386
> > > mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
> > > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> >
> > --
> > ***
> > Dr. A.D. Karve
> > President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
> >
> > *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
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> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 08:05:22 +0100
> > From: Duncan Martin <duncanjmartin at gmail.com>
> > To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> > <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] size and cost of a small domestic biogas
> > plant
> > Message-ID:
> > <AANLkTimykuvh_x2D7jhcpZz0sfXF=QWPM4EkEwJM+aeS at mail.gmail.com<QWPM4EkEwJM%2BaeS at mail.gmail.com>
> <QWPM4EkEwJM%2BaeS at mail.gmail.com <QWPM4EkEwJM%252BaeS at mail.gmail.com>>
> > >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > A typo I think - or has the Law of Conservation of Mass been repealed?
> >
> > " Using daily 1 kg (dry weight) food waste produces daily about 700 to
> 800
> > kg biogas" !
> >
> > Maybe 7-800 litres?
> >
> > Duncan Martin
> > Cloughjordan Ecovillage
> > Ireland
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4 October 2010 07:47, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Members,
> > > this question was raised in a recent flurry of messages. Instead of
> > > repeating them, I wish to state the following:
> > > Using daily 1 kg (dry weight) food waste produces daily about 700 to
> 800
> > > kg biogas, which most small families (4 to 5 persons) find quite
> adequate
> > > for cooking all their meals. Our biogas plant has a digester of 1000
> > litres
> > > and a moving drum type of a gas holder having a capacity of about 750
> > > litres. The cost of complete biogas plant is about US$200, if it is
> > > manufactured according instructions contained in our video which can be
> > > downloaded from our web site www.arti-india.org by paying us US$10
> > through
> > > Pay Pal. The matter was also discussed if yeast had beneficial effect
> on
> > > biogas production. Frankly, I do not see why and how yeast should
> benefit
> > > the process. Yeast would actually act as a competitor of the
> methanogens
> > in
> > > that the sugar that would normally have produced biogas, would be used
> by
> > > the yeast in producing alcohol. It is likely that alcohol can act as
> > > substrate for the methanogens (glycerin, which is an alcohol, can be
> > used
> > > by the methanogens as a substrate), but a lot of energy would be wasted
> > in
> > > this process in comparison to obtaining methane directly from the
> sugars
> > by
> > > using the methanogens.
> > > Yours
> > > A.D.Karve
> > > --
> > > ***
> > > Dr. A.D. Karve
> > > President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
> > >
> > > *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com*
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Digestion mailing list
> > > Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
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> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 11:25:47 +0200
> > From: Igor ?krjanec <igor.skrjanec at gmail.com>
> > To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> > <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Digestion] Eliminating Sulfides.
> > Message-ID: <4CAC409B.9010903 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > Na 5.10.2010 23:57, Ken Calvert je pisal:
> > > Igor, to my way of thinking, the use of ferric chloride is expensive,
> > > because it is difficult to recover out of the system and you have to
> > > keep buying more. I am not sure quite where you intend to use it? If
> > > you are adding it to the input into the digester it will settle
> > > inside and gradually clog your system. For me, the best filter
> > > system is
> > > a heavy steel, or a plastic drum filled with bashed up rusty tin
> > > cans. Make sure they are rusty, because new ones are still coated
> > > with a varnish that they use instead of the old tin plate. Place the
> > > iron oxide filter between the digester and the flexy gas bag for
> > > storage. This makes for an even rate of flow with enough moisture in
> > > the gas to activate the reaction. The H2S in the gas reacts with the
> > > metalic iron or iron oxide and makes iron sulfide. When nearly all
> > > the oxide has gone, and the only way to be really sure is to have two
> > > drums in parallel and switch from one to the other at regular
> > > intervals, all that is required to regenerate that drum is to open it
> > > to the air.
> > > In the presence of oyygen ferrous sulfide reverts to metalic iron and
> > > elemental sulfur, along with the evolution of a lot of heat With a
> > > heavy steel drum that is no problem, you just hook a small blower onto
> > > one outlet. With a plastic drum its a case of just opening the inlet
> > > and outlet .and positioning the drum in such a way that the heat will
> > > cause a convention flow of hot air. And if the drum gets too hot
> > > reduce the air current. With all the iron back into its metalic state
> > > the drum is ready for recycle, until there is so much flowers of
> > > sulfur that every thing gets clogged up. ATB. Ken C.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > *From:* Igor ?krjanec <mailto:igor.skrjanec at gmail.com>
> > > *To:* For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
> > > <mailto:digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 06, 2010 12:55 AM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Digestion] (no subject)
> > >
> > > Na 4.10.2010 20:15, Arturo ?valos je pisal:
> > >>
> > >> Hello all
> > >>
> > >> Does someone know something about use ferric chloride to reduce
> > >> the sulfur content in the biogas?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for the information
> > >>
> > >> //
> > >>
> > >> Arturo
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Digestion mailing list
> > >> Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >>
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > > Hallo Arturo
> > >
> > >
> > > Ferric chloride is normally use for a neutralizations of H_2 S.
> > > Hydrogen sulfide is slightly soluble in water and acts as a weak
> > > acid <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_acid>, because of this is
> > > harmful for a CHP unit.
> > >
> > > H_2 S is a product of sulfate-reducing bacteria
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate-reducing_bacteria> which are
> > > also present in biogas reactor. Sulfate-reducing bacteria
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate-reducing_bacteria> use
> > > present sulfats from substrates to oxidize the organic matter.
> > >
> > > Hydrogen sulfide reacts with metal ions to form metal sulfides
> > > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfide> (H_2 S + FeCl_2 ? FeS + 2
> > > HCl). Iron sulfide is not soluble and it is not problematic for a
> > > biogas process and CHP unit.
> > >
> > > When biogas plant works normally hydrogen sulfide is not
> > > problematic, because of its oxidation with aerobic bacteria to
> > > elementary sulphur.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bye
> > >
> > > Igor
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Digestion mailing list
> > > Digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
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> > digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> > Hello Ken,
> >
> > In Europe we use ferric chloride only in start-up. After month or two
> > you don?t need FeCL_2 anymore, because we blowing into reactor small
> > quantity of air. This is obligatory for aerobic bacteria which convert
> > H_2 S in to elemental sulfur. This method is also efficient, cheap and
> > easy to handle.
> >
> > Normally you need for 1 MW biogas plant around 0,5 m^3 FeCl_2. Because
> > of low quantity of FeCL_2 we don?t haw any problems with sediment FeS
> > and also this low concentracion of FeS are welcom as a fertilizer.
> >
> > Igor
> >
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> > ------------------------------
> >
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> >
> > End of Digestion Digest, Vol 2, Issue 17
> > ****************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
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