[Digestion] Contents of digestion digest
Bill Rucks
water.alchemy.ltd at clear.net.nz
Sun Jan 2 01:53:37 CST 2011
Greeting all
I always find it refreshing to receive answers to my enquiries !! even
though it create a lot more questions. The universe is full of answers, we
just need to better understand the real skill in asking the right questions.
(sorry for that burst of philosophical bleating)
I understand all the information relating to % of methane and the ratios of
CO2 to other gasses in my biogas and the methods on how it is produced and
so on and so forth - but surly some one has a rough idea there is a net
energy requirement to produce and set amount of energy (via fossil fuel
energy generation) and if you produce/utilise a renewable energy source like
biogas from human and waste vegetable (dinner leftovers.
Some one must have a idea on that very simple equation 1000 - 10 m3 of
biogas is equal to 1 tonne of co2 equivalents ??????
We will never build a large multiple of these system unless we have a idea
on that ratio - an surly building lots of small systems will benefit lots
more people - than big companies - the big companies have got us into this
predetermine that we find our selves in !!!
Regards
Bill Rucks
Water Alchemy ltd
New Zealand
+ 64 3 544 9148
+ 64 21 258 2063
water.alchemy.ltd at clear.net.nz
www.wateralchemy.co.nz
"how is it possible that the impossible is not only possible but
inevitable"!!
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-----Original Message-----
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Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 4, Issue 14
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Today's Topics:
1. FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents (Paul Harris)
2. Re: FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents (James Fidell)
3. Re: FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents (Randy Mott)
4. Re: FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents (David)
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:35:41 +1030
From: "Paul Harris" <paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Digestion] FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents
Message-ID: <002901cba0f6$a3bbe470$eb33ad50$@harris at adelaide.edu.au>
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Mr. Paul Harris, Room S116b, Waite Main Building Faculty of Sciences, The
University of Adelaide, Waite Campus, PMB 1, Glen Osmond SA 5064 Ph : +61
8 8303 7880 Fax : +61 8 8303 4386
<mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au> mailto:paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
<http://www.adelaide.edu.au/directory/paul.harris>
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From: Bill Rucks [mailto:water.alchemy.ltd at clear.net.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 2010 8:41 AM
To: paul.harris at adelaide.edu.au
Subject: Biogas and CO2 equivalents
Greetings Paul
I have been receiving all the digester list emails - it is always good
reading.
I have a question - and not sure how to post it !!
How do you convert M3 of biogas produced to CO2 equivalents or Carbon
Credits - is it 1000 m3 = 1 tonne of CO2 equivalents ?? of 100 m3 of biogas
to 1 tonne of CO2 equivalents and we don't have to be to precise, just
general !!
This is why:
I have a project in PNG
Were I have installed one of my Digesters into a domestic house ( which I
personal financed with another PNG group/company)
This system has been going for 3 months or so - and is constantly producing
10 m3 per month of burnable gas ( which is used for hoses hold
cooking/lighting ) these house have electrical stoves and this electrical
usage ( produced via mineral diesel electrical energy production) is been
replaced by biogas. Which is about 330 or sol lts of gas per day and they
use around 200lts per day for all there cooking lighting requirements. So it
is working well !!! it real cool - much better than my New Zealand
Digesters. Bloody New Zealand weather !!!!!
I have a JV company getting developed there and the JV company will be
building these system on mass into PNG - but I would like to get some carbon
financing and carbon credits for the energy that we have off set - in some
regions we will be offsetting electrical, LPG and wood burning for energy
production. I am a good micro digester technologist but not a good Carbon
analysts - who should we be talking to for the carbon side of things and
how much would it cost to get certification of the process to get carbon
credits, and who do we apply to get some carbon financing to assist in the
rollout of these systems. The more money the more system will get built.
Sorry for so many questions so close to Christmas
Bill Rucks
Water Alchemy ltd
New Zealand
+ 64 3 544 9148
+ 64 21 258 2063
water.alchemy.ltd at clear.net.nz
www.wateralchemy.co.nz
"how is it possible that the impossible is not only possible but
inevitable"!!
This message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received
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delete this e-mail and all attachments from your system.
P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 12:06:56 +0000
From: James Fidell <james at fidell.co.uk>
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Digestion] FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents
Message-ID: <4D109860.2000802 at fidell.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> How do you convert M3 of biogas produced to CO2 equivalents or Carbon
> Credits - is it 1000 m3 = 1 tonne of CO2 equivalents ?? of 100 m3 of
biogas
> to 1 tonne of CO2 equivalents and we don't have to be to precise, just
> general !!
I'm only familiar with the UK metrics because they're the ones I'm
dealing with at the moment, but in the case of biogas I'd imagine
they're very similar all over the world (some energy sources have
different metrics between countries and even for different areas of the
same country).
The biogas figure I have comes from the 2010 DEFRA/DECC GHG metrics and
gives 2040kg of CO2 equivalents per tonne or 0.246kgCO2e per kWh (net
CV) of biogas as a mixture of 60% CH4 and 40% CO2. I don't have figures
for emissions by volume, but my schoolboy chemistry suggests that's
likely to be more difficult given the need to account for variations in
temperature and pressure.
James
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:35:51 +0100
From: "Randy Mott" <randymott at ceeres.eu>
To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'"
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents
Message-ID: <004201cba10b$9b759e40$d260dac0$@ceeres.eu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
You cannot simply use the methane destroyed to derive credits. You have to
demonstrate that the methane destroyed would have otherwise gone into the
atmosphere. So a 1 MW biogas plant that actually destroys 116,000 tons of
CO2 equivalents a year, will typically receive only about 20-40,000tons of
actual credit. There are elaborate formulas for this calculation .....
See http://cdm.unfccc.int/methodologies/index.html
Randy Mott
CEERES
Warsaw
-----Original Message-----
From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of James
Fidell
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 1:07 PM
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Digestion] FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents
> How do you convert M3 of biogas produced to CO2 equivalents or Carbon
> Credits - is it 1000 m3 = 1 tonne of CO2 equivalents ?? of 100 m3 of
> biogas to 1 tonne of CO2 equivalents and we don't have to be to
> precise, just general !!
I'm only familiar with the UK metrics because they're the ones I'm dealing
with at the moment, but in the case of biogas I'd imagine they're very
similar all over the world (some energy sources have different metrics
between countries and even for different areas of the same country).
The biogas figure I have comes from the 2010 DEFRA/DECC GHG metrics and
gives 2040kg of CO2 equivalents per tonne or 0.246kgCO2e per kWh (net
CV) of biogas as a mixture of 60% CH4 and 40% CO2. I don't have figures for
emissions by volume, but my schoolboy chemistry suggests that's likely to be
more difficult given the need to account for variations in temperature and
pressure.
James
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 10:02:20 -0800
From: David <david at h4c.org>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Digestion] FW: Biogas and CO2 equivalents
Message-ID: <4D10EBAC.8010800 at h4c.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
Friends,
On 12/21/2010 4:35 AM, Randy Mott wrote:
> You cannot simply use the methane destroyed to derive credits. You have to
demonstrate that the methane destroyed would have otherwise gone into the
atmosphere. So a 1 MW biogas plant that actually destroys 116,000 tons of
CO2 equivalents a year, will typically receive only about 20-40,000 tons of
actual credit. There are elaborate formulas for this calculation .....
>
> See http://cdm.unfccc.int/methodologies/index.html
To add to what Randy said, of course we all realize that carbon
credits are a very unusual currency, because they are based on what is
specifically not there. That is, one gains credit for CO2 equivalents
that are /not/ produced. Thus the question becomes "How does one
demonstrate that what has been done has resulted in a reduction in CO2
equivalent emissions?"
Ordinarily, then, the process is first to document the current
situation at some depth in specified ways. For example, one might
demonstrate that a certain amount of firewood and kerosene is being
used on a per capita basis through a given region for cooking and
lighting. Then one would need to demonstrate that some portion or all
of the firewood is "non-renewable biomass", NRB. (That is, for
example, the forests from which it comes are for the most part not
replanted nor do they regrow naturally, so the CO2 released when the
wood is burned is not being recaptured locally/regionally in new
forest biomass.) Assume, for example, that half the firewood is NRB.
In that case, half the CO2 released from burning wood for cooking can
be counted as emissions, and of course all the CO2 from the kerosene.
Then one postulates or provides a given number of biogas digesters to
those in the area of interest. Again using specified methods, one
would need to demonstrate that people have certain numbers of animals
of certain kinds, and thus taking into account the regional climate
and similar factors, each digester can be expected to produce a
certain amount of biogas, which will then in turn replace a certain
amount of firewood and kerosene for cooking and lighting. Based on
those surveys, methods, measures and calculations, one makes an
assertion about the amount of emissions avoided. To that figure,
depending, one might also add (as Randy indicated) methane emissions
avoided because an assumed (demonstrated) amount of dung or kitchen
waste or what-have-you is not going anaerobic "in the wild".
There is, likewise, considerable concern in the international
community about what is called "additionality". That means that where,
say, the credits are from the Clean Development Mechanism
<http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/12/credit-where-c
redit-is-due-understanding-the-clean-development-mechanism>
(which apparently will continue beyond 2012, based on what happened in
Cancun), the UNFCCC wants to make sure that whatever is being proposed
to be done to reduce emissions could not otherwise be done without the
credits. To say it another way, where a project is self-sustaining
regardless, it cannot qualify for credits.
The processes established for producing credits are detailed, rigorous
and complex because the agency or organization must maintain
credibility. The only source of the value which the credits may
maintain derives from trust. If that trust is corroded, the associated
value is corroded. And second, the processes used may, to some, appear
bureaucratic, but here likewise there is good reason, which is that
everyone must be treated the same way, and so everyone must follow the
same process, even if that process is not well suited to the needs or
ideas of some applicants.
There are, as well, many different kinds of credits: UNFCCC provides
one kind, called a compliance credit, because it is produced under
international agreements supported by regulations in the country of
interest. There are also voluntary credits, perhaps the best of which
is the Gold Standard <http://www.cdmgoldstandard.org/>. (In fact, one
can apply for both CDM and Gold Standard, although this will not
result in having duplicated credits, although it will result in having
credits that are seen in some contexts as being more valuable.)
Finally, it would not make sense to apply for carbon credits on the
basis of one household digester. Like any similar process, the process
of applying for carbon credits has fixed and variable costs, and the
fixed costs of applying for carbon credits are substantial enough that
it would make little sense for a project developer to apply for them
where only a few credits will result. There are, likewise, minimums
that apply within the agencies and organizations that tender the credits.
Thus a single very (very) large digester may qualify, but when dealing
with digesters as small as household digesters, it will usually only
make sense to apply for credits if there are going to be a large
number of them. Carbon credits for biogas are a strategy useful where
a fairly large effort is being made, implying significant funding, a
sufficiently-sized organization on the ground and so on.
d.
--
David William House
"The Complete Biogas Handbook" |www.completebiogas.com|
/Vahid Biogas/, an alternative energy consultancy |www.vahidbiogas.com
|
"Make no search for water. But find thirst,
And water from the very ground will burst."
(Rumi, a Persian mystic poet, quoted in /Delight of Hearts/, p. 77)
http://bahai.us/
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