[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 5, Issue 10
Norma McDonald
normacnc5 at aol.com
Sun Jan 16 14:26:06 CST 2011
Angie, I would also be interested in seeing your report on small digesters.
Thank you,
Norma
-----Original Message-----
From: digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Sent: Sun, Jan 16, 2011 3:00 pm
Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 5, Issue 10
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oday's Topics:
1. Re: Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions (Peter Edgar)
2. Re: Biogas conversation rates (Franssen, Loe (Alumni))
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
ate: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 09:08:05 -0000
rom: "Peter Edgar" <peter.edgar at virgin.net>
o: "For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion"
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
ubject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
essage-ID: <B63B6B01BDD4422DBE81E50F7A16160E at ownerdb5323367>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I as a layman but interested farmer, property developer would also be very
nterested in seeing the report
eep up the good work ladies and gentlemen
eter Edgar
IDM
isk Approvals group Ltd
----- Original Message -----
From: Coleman, Pat (Canada)
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
I would be interested in seeing the report as others would.
Pat Coleman, PhD PEng
Pat.F.Coleman at aecom.com
Manager of Process Technology - Wastewater Treatment
AECOM.
T: 905.712.7025 Mississauga (leave a message and it will be emailed to me
herever I am)
T. 905.747.7595 Markham
C. 647.637.2898
www.aecom.com
From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
n Behalf Of Marie
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2011 5:42 PM
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
Cc: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
All,
I am currently doing a report on approximately 20 small scale UK farm
igesters, looking at various parameters and what makes a successful digester
nstallation. Current 'industry' thinking is that digesters at this scale are
ot economically viable. However, the smallest of these has been running
uccessfully for 20 years on an organic farm with 65 cows, saving thousands by
sing the gas to heat the house and diary washings. The average Uk dairy herd
s about 112 cows. Another one here has been running for more than 20 years,
eating a very large manor house. Another interesting digester running for more
han two years digesting slurry from cows bedded on woodchip and sand,, as well
s chicken muck. It has an automatic degritting system and the digester does not
ave to be stopped.
At this scale, the reason for the success of these systems are that they
eparate the digestate which comes out of the digester, they use inexpensive and
asily maintained gas mixing which means a low parasitic load (one is as little
s 1watt/cubic meter), the loading is typically simple auger or gravity feed
traight into the digester, the control system is very simple and the digester
s integrated into the farmyard. Suitable cast iron boilers have lasted for 20
ears and are still running.
If you are interested in the report, let me know and I can send a link/copy
hen it is published.
Regards
Angie Bywater
On 13 Jan 2011, at 17:16, <armoss at umd.edu>un wrote:
Charles-
There's at least one small-scale digester of that size currently operating
n the U.S. - at the USDA Beltsville Agricultural Research Center in Beltsville,
D. The dairy's herd size is roughly 125-130, with ~100 milking and producing
anure at any given time (dry cattle are let out to pasture). The digester was
uilt in 1994 and was constructed as a continuous stirred-tank reactor. I have
entative plans to conduct research on this digester simultaneously with a
ow-cost, pilot-scale digester project operating on the same waste-stream that's
eing constructed by our lab group at the University of Maryland. I don't have
ntimate knowledge of the USDA CSTR's history, but I can tell you what I know.
The digester was originally constructed for odor control as an upright,
ylindrical concrete tank (I'm not sure enough of the designed HRT to give you
nformation on it), and was later insulated with gunnite-coated styrofoam. It
perates on mechanically screw-press separated, scraped waste, and utilizes the
iogas produced to power a boiler that circulates hot water through a conveyance
ystem installed within the digester for heating; a combined heat and power
lectric generator was installed in the mid-2000s, but it has never been brought
nline. The digester's had a number of problems come up, including repeated
logging of the supply lines (originally 3-4" ID, now 6"), the break down of the
crew-press separator and supply pumps, and the corrosion of the boiler due to
nadequate scrubbing. To be fair, many of the problems associated with the
igester are the result of fluctuating research interest, funds, management, and
he lack of an effective biogas scrubbing s
ystem, but they exist all the same. Currently, the digester is up and
perating... although obviously not ideally.
Although most of the digestion systems are covered lagoons, the AgSTAR
ebsite contains a link to a Excel file detailing the digesters currently
egistered in the EPA's system (look under "Farm Project Profiles"). A few of
hem approximate the herd numbers you're interested in.
As a side note, our research at the University of Maryland, together with
esearch at Ohio State and the University of Wisconsin, is attempting to
ntroduce smaller-scale, lower-cost systems in the U.S. I gave a presentation
n October on small-scale digestion and some of the current efforts that you can
ind here.
Good luck hunting!
-Andy
Andrew R. MossSustainable Agriculture Research & Education FellowUniversity of
aryland Dept. of Environmental Science and Technology1445 Animal Sci./Ag.
ngineering (Bldg. 142)University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742Phone:
865) 363-5535
---- Original message ----
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 12:00:06 -0800
From: <digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Digestion Digest, Vol 5, Issue 5
To: <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
> digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."
>________________ >Today's Topics: > > 1. Small Digester and Rankine Engine
uestions (Gould, Merrill) > 2. Re: 250kW hot water biogas boiler (Ian Bywater)
3. Re: Small Digester and Rankin Engine Questions (Randy Mott) > 4. Re: Small
igester and Rankin Engine Questions (Sam Wampler) > 5. Re: Small Digester and
ankine Engine Questions (David Fulford) >________________ >Date: Tue, 11 Jan
011 17:07:41 +0000 >From: "Gould, Merrill" <gouldm at anr.msu.edu> >Subject:
Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions >To:
digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org" <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org> >
Greetings:
I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I
ay small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows,
hich is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has
een their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small
arms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had
umerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting
n a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small
arms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle
ith digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has
heir experience been with their digester?
2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an
nergy producing system?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
Charles Gould
Michigan State University Extension
West Olive, Michigan
>________________ >Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 20:51:07 +1300 >From: Ian Bywater
ian.bywater at naturalsystems.co.nz> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] 250kW hot water
iogas boiler >To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Hi Edward,
I know a boiler expert here in Christchurch, New Zealand that I'm sure has
he right expertise and can help.
Ian Bywater
On 7/01/2011, at 8:42 PM, Edward Matos wrote:
A milk processing company in our vicinity (Tanga, Tanzania) has had a
asting interest in converting its milk pasteurising process from running on
ropane to running on biogas. I am doing them a little favour by helping them to
ake a feasibility study and find the right people that will make this happen.
nfortunately I have very little experience in biogas combustion and would like
o find out if anyone here is/knows someone who could help us on this subject.
_________________
Director, Natural Systems Limited
(Unit 5B/ 3 Settlers Crescent)
PO Box 41032
Christchurch 8247
New Zealand
T +64(0)3 376 5549
M +64(0)27 579 6333
F +64(0)3 365 4146
S bywateri
W www.naturalsystems.co.nz
The Most Exciting Green Technology Company in New Zealand (NBR 2008)
Bayer Innovators Award finalist, 2010, Agriculture and Environment category
NZ patent 530362
>________________ >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 08:50:57 +0100 >From: "Randy Mott"
randymott at ceeres.eu> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankin Engine
uestions >To: "'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'" <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
We don?t do projects in the US, but my understanding is that 500 cows is a
ule of thumb. I have some literature?.
On Rankin cycle engines, we have followed it closely in Europe and the US.
here is about 15% more electricity that can come from the heat exhaust of the
nitial generators. The capex is about 1250 Euro/kW. We don?t have much
ncentive to do it in Poland since we sell the heat and also obtain a
o-generation certificate for each MWe.
GE Jenbacher is doing some development in Europe and eventually, I believe,
ill be trying to offer this as an option on its generators.
Randy Mott
CEERES
Warsaw
From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
n Behalf Of Gould, Merrill
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:08 PM
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
Greetings:
I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I
ay small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows,
hich is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has
een their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small
arms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had
umerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting
n a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small
arms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle
ith digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has
heir experience been with their digester?
2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an
nergy producing system?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
Charles Gould
Michigan State University Extension
West Olive, Michigan
>________________ >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 05:20:28 -0800 >From: Sam Wampler
smwampler at avatarenergy.com> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankin
ngine Questions >To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Nick,
Why don?t you have Kevin answer the below question about a small digester.
Sam
smwampler at avatarenergy.com
www.avatarenergy.com
336.446.9305 (Google Voice)
336.824.1389 (fax)
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From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
n Behalf Of Randy Mott
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 2:51 AM
To: 'For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion'
Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankin Engine Questions
We don?t do projects in the US, but my understanding is that 500 cows is a
ule of thumb. I have some literature?.
On Rankin cycle engines, we have followed it closely in Europe and the US.
here is about 15% more electricity that can come from the heat exhaust of the
nitial generators. The capex is about 1250 Euro/kW. We don?t have much
ncentive to do it in Poland since we sell the heat and also obtain a
o-generation certificate for each MWe.
GE Jenbacher is doing some development in Europe and eventually, I believe,
ill be trying to offer this as an option on its generators.
Randy Mott
CEERES
Warsaw
From: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
n Behalf Of Gould, Merrill
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2011 6:08 PM
To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Digestion] Small Digester and Rankine Engine Questions
Greetings:
I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I
ay small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows,
hich is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has
een their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small
arms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had
umerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting
n a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small
arms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle
ith digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has
heir experience been with their digester?
2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an
nergy producing system?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
Charles Gould
Michigan State University Extension
West Olive, Michigan
>________________ >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2011 16:22:12 +0000 >From: David
ulford <davidf at kingdombio.com> >Subject: Re: [Digestion] Small Digester and
ankine Engine Questions >To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org> >Cc: "Gould, Merrill" <gouldm at anr.msu.edu>
Charles and listers,
The best source of information on AD in USA is the AgSTAR project run by EPA
www.epa.gov/agstar/). They have a database of digesters, which includes a few
mall ones.
They point to the Minnesota Project (www.mnproject.org) which is trying to
oncentrate on biogas for small farms (125 cattle or less).
Regards,
David F
On 11/01/2011 17:07, Gould, Merrill wrote:
Greetings:
I have two questions I am hoping someone has answers for:
1. Are there small farms with digesters in the United States? When I
ay small farm I don?t mean 2-3 cows, I mean a farm with around 125 dairy cows,
hich is the average herd size in Michigan. If so, where are they and what has
een their experience with their digester? I suspect there probably are no small
arms with digesters in the US, but I would really like to know. I have had
umerous inquiries from farmers with small farms in West Michigan about putting
n a digester on their farm. If my assumption is correct that there are no small
arms with digesters, are there farms with comparable numbers of dairy cattle
ith digesters outside of the United State? If so, where are they and what has
heir experience been with their digester?
2. Has anyone had experience using a Rankine engine as part of an
nergy producing system?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide me.
Charles Gould
Michigan State University Extension
West Olive, Michigan
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iogashttp://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
--
********************************************************************
Dr David Fulford CEnv MEI, 15, Brandon Ave, Woodley, Reading RG5 4PU
d.j.fulford at btinternet.com, Tel: +44(0)118 326 9779 Mob: +44(0)7746 806401
Kingdom Bioenergy Ltd, www.kingdombio.com, davidf at kindombio.com
>________________ >_______________________________________________
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he web page >http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>for more information about digestion, see >Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ >and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
_______________________________________________
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
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Message: 2
ate: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:34:06 +0100
rom: "Franssen, Loe (Alumni)"
<LLC.Franssen at alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl>
o: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
<digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
ubject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates
essage-ID:
<0936452FDABCB945A21B7F5AB72DB8D41468107E1A at UM-MAIL4113.unimaas.nl>
ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Hey Duncan (and the others),
thanks for your elaborate answer ! I'm sorry for being unspecific. Let me be a
it more specific and take the kerosene conversion rate because the information
n this one is the most inconsistent.
Assumptions
onsumption rate simple wick kerosene lamp; 0,01 liter kerosene per hour
Biogas lamp; 70 liters of gas per hour (specifications
f the lamp that will be supplied: http://kingoni.en.ec21.com/Biogas_Lamp--3003470_3352352.html)
umen output of a simple wick kerosene lamp 7,8 lumen
biogas lamp; 50 lumen (not sure on this number as
here is a large range for it right?!)
alculation
o 1 liter of kerosene is equivalent to 7000 liter gas. After correcting for
umen output, 1 liter of kerosene is equal to 1,077 liter of gas
If i use calorific values i get the following result
1kilo kerosene = 46 mj/kg with a density of 0,95 kg/l so
1 liter kerosene = 43,7 mj/l
1m3 biogas is 22.5mJ
1 liter biogas = 0,0225 mJ
1L kerosene = (43.7/0.0225) = 1942,22L biogas
uite a difference hm probably because of the lumen i took for the biogas lamp
nd the consumption rates?! do you have recommendations on these numbers?
Then another small question.. for anthracite charcoal i found a calorific value
f 27mJ/kg, for lignite charcoal 15 mj/kg. I'm talking about charcoal that these
ural african farmers simply make in their backyard. i assume i should take 15
j/kg then right?! or even less?
Thanks again!
________________________________
an: digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [digestion-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]
amens Duncan Martin [duncanjmartin at gmail.com]
erzonden: zaterdag 15 januari 2011 10:51
an: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
nderwerp: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates
Hi Loe
A few quick comments:
1. You can check equivalences yourself by looking up the calorific values
heating values) of the three reference fuels. Go back to the raw data, rather
han relying on the interpretations of others - who may well be biased. The data
s readily available and it needs no more specialized knowledge to calculate
quivalences than it does to calculate a currency conversion - which I am sure
ou could do in your sleep! *
2. Some of these fuels (eg biogas, firewood) are q variable so all equivalences
ould be best expressed as ranges. That might be one reason for the
nconsistencies you mention. Make sure your source isn't based on biomethane -
e purified biogas.
3. Rating biogas per so many hours of cooking is meaningless unless better
efined - are you assuming an open gas ring, an enclosed oven or what**? Just
ne burning at a time? What kind of food is being cooked - because some foods
eed long, slow cooking? (Maybe a better yardstick would be a typical daily
ousehold consumption.)
4. Rating biogas per so many hours of lighting is equally meaningless. How many
ights? What output? A reasonable assumption for this application might be a
ingle ~40W-equivalent to light a single room - but state it.
* If that sounds unhelpful, it comes from long experience of university teaching
and exposure to a lot of "I am a student and I need someone to do my
ssignment for me" requests! You'll learn more if you learn how to work it out
or yourself.
** A well known problem here is that the poorest people often (though not
lways) use the least efficient cooking methods - eg an open fire. A common site
n urban Zimbabwe a few years ago was a pot suspended above an electric fire
aid on its back!!!
Duncan Martin
loughjordan Ecovillage
reland
On 12 January 2011 13:52, Franssen, Loe (Alumni) <LLC.Franssen at alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl<mailto:LLC.Franssen at alumni.maastrichtuniversity.nl>>
rote:
ear biogas experts,
am a 22 year old student from the Maastricht University where I am doing a
achelor in International Business. I am currently doing an internship for a
utch biogas company that is planning to sell systems in East Africa. I am
eveloping a huge mathematical model that calculates - among other things - how
ig (m?) a digester should be for those households. I want to determine this on
he basis of the kilo?s of charcoal and firewood and liters of kerosene they
lready use and also on the basis of cooking time and lighting hours. After
tudying several articles from GTZ, SNV, and master or Phd. students? reports I
ame to the following conversion rates and I was hoping you guys could give your
pinion on it.
ource
Charcoal (kg) >> Gas (l)
500
GTZ article Biogas digest volume 1<http://www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/en-biogas-volume1.pdf>
TZ article Biogas digest volume 1
firewood (kg) >> Gas (l)
200
Kerosene (l) >> Gas (l)
1600
link 1<http://www.shvoong.com/humanities/1957301-biogas-making-technique-simplified/>
link 2<http://www.inseda.org/Presentation/Biogas-the%20future%20Sustainable%20Energy-Fr%20Mathew.pdf>
link 3<http://www.eplantscience.com/index_files/biotechnology/Biotechnology%20and%20environment/Biomass%20Energy%20(Bio-energy)/biotech_bio-energy_gaseous_fuels.php>
ooking (hrs) >> Gas (l)
300
Lighting (hrs) >> Gas (l)
70
SNVworld.org link4<http://www.snvworld.org/en/Documents/Biogas_stoves_and_lamps_test_report_2009.pdf>
I am particularly concerned about the conversion rate from liters of kerosene to
iters of biogas. The results I found online don?t seem to be very constant. I
ried to do some calculations myself but I have no idea how to calculate this
my background is (micro-) finance) so I was hoping you could shed some lights
n these numbers!!
ind regards,
oe Franssen Maastricht University student
______________________________________________
igestion mailing list
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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for more information about digestion, see
eginner's Guide to Biogas
ttp://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
nd the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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for more information about digestion, see
eginner's Guide to Biogas
ttp://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
nd the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
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