[Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 45, Issue 4
harrisfm at aapt.net.au
harrisfm at aapt.net.au
Wed Jun 11 00:15:44 CDT 2014
G'day All,
The difference between LPG and biogas (LNG?) is that propane and
butane (the components of LPG) liquefy at low pressures at ambient
temperatures (even in hot weather) but methane (the fuel in biogas)
will not liquefy at ambient temperatures (it must be refrigerated -
methane boils at -161.4 C at atmospheric pressure compared to -43 C
and 0 C for propane and butane respectively). This means that to store
compressed methane you really need cylinders like nitrogen or oxygen
cylinders, rather than LPG bottles, and to work at higher pressures
(which uses a LOT of energy!).
I agree that biogas is better used locally in stationary applications
rather than stored for transport or use as a transport fuel.
Happy Digesting,HOOROO
----- Original Message -----
From: "For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion"
To:"For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion"
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 10 Jun 2014 16:40:15 +0300
Subject:Re: [Digestion] Digestion Digest, Vol 45, Issue 4
We have filled LP gas tanks with pressurized biogas before, but you
really will have only a out 15-20 minutes of flame. Not enough for a
BBQ. Lp gas is really transported in liquid form, which is many
orders of magnitude higher pressure than you could achieve with any
reasonable tire pump or other compressor. It is all about volume for
biogas transport at small scale. We have shipped many gas bladders
to the US, but the degree to which you are going to transport and
follow US regulations is a more challenging question.
These challenges are exactly why small biogas is used primarily on
site or through small local pipelines.
A On Jun 10, 2014 3:50 AM, "Anand Karve" wrote:
Dear Jake,
commercial vehicles like trucks, tractors etc. have large wheels with
pneumatic tyres. These tyres are designed to withstand pressure of
air
filled into them. All trucks carry spare wheels and I have not heard
of a spare wheel having burst.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Srinivas Kasulla
wrote:
> Dear Mr Jake Douenias,
> I do agree with the views of Dr A D Karve and every country has
their rules,
> regulations for storage as well as for transporting such
pressurised gas.
> I would suggest you to look into these rules and regulations and
take some
> professional help as pressurized gas is dangerous to play with.
>
>
> regards
> Srinivas Kasulla
> srinivaskasulla at gmail.com [3]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:30 PM,
> wrote:
>>
>> Send Digestion mailing list submissions to
>> digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org [5]
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[6]
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Digestion digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Safe Transportation of Low Pressure Biomethane for
Social
>> Gatherings (Jacob Douenias)
>> 2. Re: Safe Transportation of Low Pressure Biomethane for
Social
>> Gatherings (Anand Karve)
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 15:16:37 -0400
>> From: Jacob Douenias
>> To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org [10]
>> Subject: [Digestion] Safe Transportation of Low Pressure
Biomethane
>> for Social Gatherings
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I am a researcher and entrepreneur at Carnegie Mellon University
and I am
>> working on how to share the knowledge and benefits of simple AD
systems
>> with Americans.
>>
>> My team has been investigating the possibility of converting
commercial
>> food waste to biogas in a low-tech 250 gallon digester, and then
scrubbing
>> that biogas ourselves into biomethane.
>>
>> We want to hold events or cook-outs where local chefs could cook
great
>> food
>> using biomethane.
>>
>> To do this in our area the best way to share this biomethane with
others
>> is
>> to drive it to a local gathering.
>>
>> What do you all think the safest way to go about transporting this
>> biomethane on the road would be? If we were to invest in a
low-cost biogas
>> inflatable (ie. PVC) and house this bag inside of a large plastic
>> enclosure
>> would this be relatively safe?
>>
>> We want to share this technology and its benefits with others!
>>
>> Can you help us figure this problem out?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> -- Jake Douenias
>>
>> *http://thebiogenousproject.org/ [12] *
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 07:06:52 +0530
>> From: Anand Karve
>> To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Safe Transportation of Low Pressure
>> Biomethane for Social Gatherings
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Dear Jake,
>> One can fill non-pressurised pure methane into inflatable bags
and
>> transport it, but in this form you have to cary large volumes of
it.
>> Secondly, you would have to use pressure for getting the methane
from
>> the bag into your cookstoves. It would be easier If you could use
>> pressure at the facility where you produced the methane, and
filled it
>> into rigid cylinders. Not only would the volume be reduced but the
gas
>> would flow easily from the cylinder into the burners of the stove.
We
>> have tested this concept as an experiment, using LPG cylinders as
>> containers and a pesticide pump for filling the cylinders
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 12:46 AM, Jacob Douenias
>> wrote:
>> > Dear all,
>> >
>> > I am a researcher and entrepreneur at Carnegie Mellon University
and I
>> > am
>> > working on how to share the knowledge and benefits of simple AD
systems
>> > with
>> > Americans.
>> >
>> > My team has been investigating the possibility of converting
commercial
>> > food
>> > waste to biogas in a low-tech 250 gallon digester, and then
scrubbing
>> > that
>> > biogas ourselves into biomethane.
>> >
>> > We want to hold events or cook-outs where local chefs could cook
great
>> > food
>> > using biomethane.
>> >
>> > To do this in our area the best way to share this biomethane
with others
>> > is
>> > to drive it to a local gathering.
>> >
>> > What do you all think the safest way to go about transporting
this
>> > biomethane on the road would be? If we were to invest in a
low-cost
>> > biogas
>> > inflatable (ie. PVC) and house this bag inside of a large
plastic
>> > enclosure
>> > would this be relatively safe?
>> >
>> > We want to share this technology and its benefits with others!
>> >
>> > Can you help us figure this problem out?
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> > -- Jake Douenias
>> >
>> > http://thebiogenousproject.org/ [19]
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Digestion mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > Digestion at bioenergylists.org [20]
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
http://listsbioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
[21]
>> >
>> > for more information about digestion, see
>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ [22]
>> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/ [23]
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology
Institute (ARTI)
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>>
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>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>>
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
[25]
>>
>> for more information about digestion, see
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ [26]
>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/ [27]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Digestion Digest, Vol 45, Issue 4
>> ****************************************
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
>
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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[29]
>
> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ [30]
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/ [31]
>
>
--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
(ARTI)
_______________________________________________
Digestion mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
[33]
for more information about digestion, see
Beginner's Guide to Biogas
http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ [34]
and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/ [35]
Links:
------
[1] mailto:adkarve at gmail.com
[2] mailto:srinivaskasulla at gmail.com
[3] mailto:srinivaskasulla at gmail.com
[4] mailto:digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
[5] mailto:digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
[6]
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[7] mailto:digestion-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
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[9] mailto:jdouenias at gmail.com
[10] mailto:digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
[11]
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[12] http://thebiogenousproject.org/
[13] http://thebiogenousproject.org/
[14]
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[15] mailto:adkarve at gmail.com
[16] mailto:digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
[17]
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[18] mailto:jdouenias at gmail.com
[19] http://thebiogenousproject.org/
[20] mailto:Digestion at bioenergylists.org
[21]
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[22] http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
[23] http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
[24] mailto:Digestion at bioenergylists.org
[25]
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
[26] http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
[27] http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
[28] mailto:Digestion at bioenergylists.org
[29]
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
[30] http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
[31] http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
[32] mailto:Digestion at bioenergylists.org
[33]
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[34] http://www.adelaideedu.au/biogas/
[35] http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
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