[Digestion] Lessons Learned from the dissemination of Biodigesters for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013.

Tue Jan 13 00:47:05 CST 2015

Dear Murali,
there exists a positive correlation between the population density of
microbes in the soil and soil fertility. Organic material applied to the
soil serves as food for the microbes and leads to increasing their
population density. When provided with organic carbon, the microbes
multiply their numbers and in the process, they also take up minerals from
the soil. There exists a food chain in the soil, whereby the bacteria are
eaten by amoebae, the amoebae are eaten by the annelids, the annelids are
eaten by arthropods and so on. The carbon content of these organisms gets
reduced as one goes up the food chain, and the minerals are excreted into
the soil. These minerals cause the soil fertility to increase. Fields
chronically receiving high doses of inorganic fertilizers have microbes of
a different kind than soils receiving only organic substances. For
instance, urea causes mainly those microbes to multiply, which oxidise urea
to nitrate. When one shifts from chemical fertilizers to organic manures,
one has to give time to the soil for effecting the change in the microbial
composition and the composition of organisms in the food chain. Therefore
one does not get immediate results.
Yours
A.D.Karve

 ***
Dr. A.D. Karve

Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)

Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 6:57 AM, Murali Krishna <bmkrishna6 at gmail.com>
wrote:

>  Good day Dr. Karve,
>
> I have been practising organic farming for more than 12 years and using
> several inputs.  I read one of your similar articles (as above) and used 25
> kgs of sugar through drip line and I could not get the same result as that
> of using 10 tons of compost.  I also tried application of molasses with
> little success.  Similarly, 25 kgs of fresh green leaves are also not
> sufficient (as per my practical experience).
>
> It would be great if you would kindly mail me some of the research
> findings in this line, so that I shall correct the application procedures
> and once again try.  If it works, it will really  a boon to the farmers.
> As 10 kgs of sugar costs Rs.450 and if it is sufficient to grow a crop in
> one acre, the farmers can save substantial amounts.
>
> Regars.
>
> Murali Krishna
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 8:27 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Dear Jaime and others,
>>
>> Let me explain the background of my thoughts. I am an agricultural
>> scientist and I started working on biogas in 2003, at the age of 67. The
>> reason was my realization that if we wanted the methane  producing
>> organisms to produce a high calorie substance like methane we must feed
>> them with a high calorie material. I therefore constructed a biogas plant
>> and when I fed it with sugar, I found that I could get the same amount of
>> biogas from 1 kg sugar as from 40 kg cattle dung. I then tested starch,
>> proteins, fats, cellulose and got more or less the same results. In 2004 we
>> installed these biogas plants in 40 urban households, which had no access
>> to cattle dung. In 2005, I read a paper on our work in a conference. The
>> audience just did not believe me. They said that food would produce biogas
>> only if it was co-fermented with cattle dung. Since then I have been
>> advocating that if dung is to be used as a source of energy, it should be
>> burned and not converted into biogas. My detractors then countered my views
>> with the argument that the slurry of a dung based biogas plant could be
>> used as fertilizer. I showed that this too was a wrong notion. If one
>> wanted to feed the soil microbes with an organic source of food, one should
>> use a substance with high nutritive value. Just 25 kg sugar added to a ha
>> of agricultural land, would give the same results as a 10 tons of compost.
>> In fact, this method of farming has now become quite popular in India and
>> there are thousands of farmers who apply neither compost nor chemical
>> fertilizers to their field, but just 25 kg sugar per ha, once every 3
>> months. One can equally well apply 125 kg green leaves per ha and get the
>> same results.
>>
>> Yours
>>
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>>  ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>
>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>>
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>>
>>  On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Jaime Marti Herrero <
>> tallerbiogas at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  hi Dr Karve
>>>  you said "Therefore, making biogas from feces of animals is not a very
>>> efficient way of getting biogas" and i am agree with you. but many
>>> digesters are installed in places where there are only manure able to fed
>>> the digester. manure that if is not properly handle will be pollutant. So,
>>> manure can be used for composting, anaerobic digestion or vermiculture (and
>>> some cases gasification), and one could combine these differnt techniques.
>>>  biogas is not only the main focus, also to produce bioslurry as fertilizer
>>> and use the digester as waste treatment system. this is the concept of
>>> productive biogas (more information here:
>>> http://www.snvworld.org/download/publications/snv_fact_productive_biogas_2014_final.pdf
>>> )
>>> about the value of the bioslurry as fertilizer you can find more
>>> information here publihed in 2014:
>>> From FAO: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i3441e.pdf
>>> From Hivos: https://www.hivos.org/sites/default/files/bioslurry_book.pdf
>>> From SNV:
>>> http://www.snvworld.org/en/download/publications/alterra_report_2519_bioslurry.pdf
>>>
>>> So we are not only focused in biogas.  I think, that this is a weak
>>> vision of the anaerobic digestion. nutrient recycling should be as
>>> important as biogas production. So perhaps manure is not as efficient as
>>> other sunstrates for biogas protucion, but is also a waste that we can use.
>>>
>>> about the efficiency of digesters, as commented in previous mails, the
>>> highest efficiency is found in the mobile digester that are the animal. So
>>> one idea could be that crude waste chould go first to a animal stomach
>>> (pigs, cow, chiken, worms...) and introduce their waste in a sencod
>>> artificil digester as a second treatment system.
>>>
>>> But at the end, exist several situations that make posible a variety of
>>> strategies, from anaerobic digestion in urban areas, where no animals are
>>> found to eat the crude organic waste, or digesters fed with manure (from
>>> animal that have been fed with crude waste or crops) in rural areas, or
>>> combination of both, or other ideas/technologies. Finally one adapts the
>>> technology to the situation and substrates.
>>>
>>> So making biogas from feces of animals is a very efficient way of
>>> getting biogas when no other substare is able. and not only biogas, also
>>> bioslurry and waste treatment
>>> sorry about my english
>>>
>>> keep in touch
>>> jaime
>>>
>>> -----
>>> *Jaime Martí Herrero, PhD. *
>>>
>>> *INER* (www.iner.gob.ec). *Biomasa*
>>>
>>> *CIMNE (*www.cimne.com). *Building Energy and Environment Group*
>>>
>>> Quito · Ecuador. Tel. (+593)-09 857 03726
>>>
>>> *BIOGAS and Latin America*
>>> -RedBioLAC:http://redbiolac.org/
>>>
>>> -Taller Biogas Bolivia:http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com
>>> <http://tallerbiogas.blogspot.com/>
>>> -Biodigestores familiares: Guía de diseño y manual de instalación:
>>> http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2008_jmh_guia_biodigestores.pdf
>>>
>>> -Desarrollo, difusión e implementación de tecnologías
>>> apropiadas:Biodigestores en Bolivia
>>> <http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf>
>>> :
>>> http://grecdh.upc.edu/publicacions/llibres/documents/2014_Biodigestores-Lecciones-Bolivia.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 11:59:23 +0530
>>> From: adkarve at gmail.com
>>> To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Digestion] Lessons Learned from the dissemination of
>>> Biodigesters for Sanitation in haiti, form 2010 to 2013.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Murali,
>>> calorific value of methane from 1kg dung should read as 200 kcal and not
>>> plain calories.
>>> Yours
>>> A.D.Karve
>>>
>>>  ***
>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>>
>>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>>>
>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>>> (ARTI)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 6:34 AM, Murali Krishna <bmkrishna6 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Good day Dr. Karve,
>>>
>>> Undoubtedly all the animals are mobile digesters and they convert their
>>> food into energy and the undigested is let out into Nature. Law of Nature
>>> does not permit 100% percent digestion of food in their digestive track and
>>> they have to excrete and this excreta is food for some other animals that
>>> exist down the line.  There used to be a recycling balance in the nature
>>> when the species co-existed in a proportional order. Now due to the
>>> explosion of population of species, living styles, dwelling space, and
>>> several other changes, we find everywhere untreated waste. *Somewhere,
>>> someone in the line has to handle waste and we cannot allow the fecal
>>> matter release CH4 into atmosphere.* Urban dwelling seldom permit
>>> Nature to take its own course and recycle nor we have space to let the
>>> other animals roam around and take care of it for several reasons.
>>>
>>> Now the question is whether recycling of excreta of species (including
>>> human species) is worth recycling.  Yes, it is and it has to be.  We cannot
>>> allow emissions even in small quantity. And this type of projects are
>>> economically viable too!   Above all, now there is equipment to evacuate
>>> the digesters.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Murali Krishna
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:58 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Anthony,
>>> the report is too big for my computer to handle. Can you provide a
>>> short summary of the findings? As a person who has been studying
>>> biogas technology for the last 15 years, I have my own opinions about
>>> using fecal matter as a source of biogas. Please note that under
>>> anaerobic conditions, the microbes survive by taking oxygen from their
>>> food. Therefore, one must provide them with substances that contain
>>> oxygen in their molecules. The methanogens use the oxygen in their
>>> food for their own metabolism and give out methane. ammonia and H2S,
>>> none of which ontains oxygen. All animals, including humans represent
>>> living biogas plants and their fecal matter represents material that
>>> is predominently indigestible to the biogas producing organisms.
>>> Therefore, making biogas from feces of animals is not a very efficient
>>> way of getting biogas. Secondly, if you used human fecal matter as the
>>> major feedstock, and if by chance the biogas plant goes out of order,
>>> you may not find anybody willing to repair it.
>>> Yours
>>> A.D.Karve
>>> ***
>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>>
>>> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>>>
>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>>> (ARTI)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 8:50 PM, Anthony Kilbride
>>> <anthony.kilbride at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Dear Biodigestion list,
>>> >
>>> > Happy New year!
>>> >
>>> > I have been quietly observing the discussions of the Digestion list
>>> for a
>>> > year or more and I have gained a great insight into the world of ABD
>>> through
>>> > the various exchanges between members of the digestion list. I would
>>> like to
>>> > thank all of you who take the time to communicate your findings on the
>>> > forum; results, successes and challenges. The forum is truly a great
>>> > resource and it is wonderful to see so many individuals and groups
>>> from all
>>> > over the world who are so open and generous in sharing their
>>> information.
>>> >
>>> > I now have some information of my own to share, in the form of a
>>> lessons
>>> > learned document on the experiences of the dissemination of
>>> Biodigesters for
>>> > Sanitation in Haiti, from 2010 to 2013. The research was undertaken by
>>> the
>>> > NGO; Norwegian Church Aid (NCA).
>>> > The report in its entirety can be viewed here:
>>> >
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qqu3qpkhohatol/NCA_Biogas%20report_EN.pdf?dl=0
>>> >
>>> > Whilst sanitation and the corresponding public health gains are not the
>>> > objectives of many of the users of the forum (usually energy and
>>> recycling
>>> > of nutrients in slurry are the main objectives), there is nevertheless
>>> a
>>> > substantial volume of work being undertaken using biodigesters for
>>> > sanitation, and the Haitian experience is one such example which I
>>> hope will
>>> > provide interesting reading for biogas practitioners.
>>> >
>>> > I welcome feedback on the report, and I wish you all the greatest
>>> possible
>>> > success in 2015!
>>> >
>>> > Hoorooh!
>>> >
>>> > Anthony Kilbride.
>>> > WASH Manager.
>>> > NCA Haiti.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Digestion mailing list
>>> >
>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>> > Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>>> >
>>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>> >
>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>> >
>>> > for more information about digestion, see
>>> > Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> > http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> > and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>>
>>> for more information about digestion, see
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Murali Krishna
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Protect Mother Nature
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>
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>>>
>>> for more information about digestion, see
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> for more information about digestion, see Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/ and the Biogas Wiki
>>> http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Digestion mailing list
>>>
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>>>
>>> for more information about digestion, see
>>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Digestion mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more information about digestion, see
>> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
>> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
>> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Regards.
>
> Murali Krishna
>
>
>
>
>
> Protect Mother Nature
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Digestion mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Digestion at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/digestion_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more information about digestion, see
> Beginner's Guide to Biogas
> http://www.adelaide.edu.au/biogas/
> and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/
>
>
>
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