[Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_

Luke Gardner lgardner at wwest.net
Thu Dec 30 13:30:15 CST 2010


gents,
so let me get this straight,  if a gas is to be used as feed in a process it "could be termed"  or better stated  it is termed  synthesis gas.
I  see a major part of this discussion as simple as this.  Is Syngas as a word, an abreviated form of the word Synthesis gas?  Or are these two different words with different connotaions.  Untill this root element is settled you guys are going to chase each other arround in circles forever and just beat each other up along the way even if no harm is intended.
If they are the same, just abreviated, then it seems pretty harmles to say that a biomas gasifier's out put can be used as syngas.  even though in most practical applications this is not the intended use of the produced gas, but it can be.  (below you will find they are not)
If they are not the same then it seem every one can agree upon what synthesis gas is,, so then I see the root of the argument  (or shall I say discussion) to be the definition of the word Syngas as being something different than a gas used as feedstock.  

The bottom line is this these gasifiers in discussion do not produce a stream of reliable flow of a specific like compound.
they do produce if built and operated correctly a homoginoius flow of several compounds, the ratio's of which are everchanging and as fickle as the wind or shall I say as fickle as the humidity that day.  I think that this somewhat homoginious mix has come to be called SYNGAS by some regardless of its intended use,  meaning that it is not the same (or an abreviation)   of synthesis gas which is specific to its use.  
Just some reasonable deduction there.  as some have alluded to the assumtion that the two words have or have not a similarity in connotation or spelling.  
dicussions usually end when one goes to the dictionary, 
so to add some fuel to the fire, so to speak, here is ,,, are you ready for a kind of funny coincidence,, I looked up the definition of SYN  on Dictionary.com , and have pasted it here below. and  low and behold, it even coincidentally uses the term in question.  as far as this source is concerned SYNGAS means SYNTHETIC GAS.  
so any haggeling over syngas coming out of a gasifier is over, unless as previously stated  someone wants to step up and test their  producer gas and show that it is indeed a steady flow of a single compound that has specific freezing and boiling points, which we all know isn't going to happen.   

syn-
  
a prefix occurring in loanwords from Greek, having the same function as co-  ( synthesis; synoptic ); used, with the meaning "with," "together," in the formation of compound words ( synsepalous ) or "synthetic" in such compounds ( syngas ). 
Use syn- in a Sentence
See images of syn-
Search syn- on the Web
Also, sy-, syl-, sym-, sys-.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Origin: 
< Gk, comb. form repr. sýn  with, together with 


having that said the argument above stands that it can be called Synthesis gas, and that Synthetic or syngas can be derived from the the  synthesis gas, wood gas, town gas, producer gas,,, U-name-it gas.  From what I gater just dont call producer gas  Syngas as its not there yet.

I also understand that in order to continue being productive means marketing these things as this is my agenda as well and the alluer of a catchy  term that rolls off ones tounge is attractive, because many of us in this discussion become sales people at some point,  But we aren't selling the sham wow at two in the morning.
I have been guilty for some time now my self as calling this stuff syngas-- no more, when all else fails speak the truth,, from now on I will market it as producing low grade hydrogen gas.  
On another side note this would be a good time to colectivly come up with a good catchy name for this gas that not only encompasess its variable nature, but more importantly promotes it.  something like surface gas,,, or even beter sun gas.  something that would differentiate it from anything derived from hydrocarbon deposits contained and trapped within the earth.  I think that it will become increasingly important in the future to make a clean break from any continuity or associasion of this with fossil fuels. promotion with agricultural non edible feedstock and highly managed forest practices is the key to success.  
I like it "Sun Gas"  after all that is where the energy is coming from without digging up and introducing a bunch of yester years carbon overloading the system.

Thoughts anyone??


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Manning" <a31ford at gmail.com>
To: "A Gasification (E-mail)" <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_


> 
> 
> Kevin, we do NOT have to "Work toward arriving at definitions", the
> (Definitions) are already there (look them up, and NOT on "wiki" try a
> chemistry book), it's just that many among us, attempt to use them
> incorrectly (errantly or otherwise).
> 
> That is like saying "I use my pea sea to spiel cheque four me two sea if my
> words are correct".
> 
> The above sentence uses "correct" words, BUT not in the correct context.
> (as I would assume you wood no, LMAO !)
> 
> The context of the many types and forms of gases, are VERY well known, and
> the information is all there, it's the use of the words that needs the
> arriving at.
> 
> Greg Manning,
> Canadian Gasifier Ltd.  (http://www.cangas.ca)
> Building Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since 2001
> 
> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
> 1 (204) 726-1851
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin [mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 10:17 AM
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification; a31ford at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_
> 
> 
> Dear Bill
> 
> Would you agree that any device that gasifies material is a "gasifier"?
> 
> Would you agree that any gas being produced by such a gas producer is
> "Producer gas"?
> 
> Would you agree that if the composition of the gas produced was such that it
> could be used for synthesizing other products that it could be termed
> "synthesis gas"?
> 
> Lets work toward arriving at definitions, rather than slamming or supporting
> people.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Klein" <Bill_Klein at 3iAlternativePower.com>
> To: <a31ford at gmail.com>; "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 11:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_
> 
> 
>>
>> Content analysis details:   (0.0 points)
>>
>>  pts rule name              description
>> ---- ---------------------- ----------------------------------------------
> ----
>>  0.0 FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK     Forged mail pretending to be from MS Outlook
>>
>> Well said, Greg!
>>
>> During this discussion several well meaning folks have alluded to the
>> rationalization that states if an academic paper uses the term "syngas"
>> rather than "producer gas" or if a governmental body does the same, it
>> becomes some sort of proof positive that the terms are not only
>> interchangeable, but we can ignore specificity in favor of a simple catch
>> all generic term. All because some professor wrote a paper and, though
>> well
>> intentioned, ignorantly used the wrong word!!? Or someone in the
>> government
>> demonstrating equal ignorance?
>>
>> What a joke!
>>
>> Let's face it. Those that can, do! and those that cannot, teach! Those
>> that
>> cannot teach work for the government. It's that simple.
>>
>> Producer gas, by any other name is still producer gas and if you don't do
>> a
>> good job making it, the resulting mess is sticky, smelly and unhealthy.
>>
>> We manufacture gasifiers. We test the hell out of them before we ship them
>> in order to ensure each makes the correct amount of producer gas!
>>
>> Have a gassy New Year!
>>
>> Bill Klein,
>> 3i
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Greg Manning" <a31ford at gmail.com>
>> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
>> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 6:31 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> LMAO Jeff.
>>
>> You hit two nails with the same hammer.
>>
>>  Shells' claim is that it "cleans" (their N2 is in the form of a
>> "recumbent
>> NOx format", that "Boosts" performance to the point of a clean combustion,
>> as per say, like a hot-rodders's "NOX" add-on).
>>
>>
>>  Jim's statement (that you included below) Is yet again a form of
>> deflection, (incorrect of course), Or should I say, Correct.......
>>
>>
>>
>>  N2 content is EXACTLY the differentiation between "SYNGAS" and "Producer
>> Gas"
>>
>>
>>
>> Heck,
>>
>> There's Town gas, Lime gas, Produced gas, Producer gas, Coal gas, Wood
>> gas,
>> Piped gas, Charcoal gas, Synthesis (Syn) gas, Lamp gas, Heating gas,
>> Municipal gas, Queen's gas, Lamp lighters gas, Crier's gas, and finally,
>> Natural gas.
>>
>> And as Bill Kline added, the "new and Improved" "GEK Gas" as a tongue in
>> cheek addition to the already rampant list above.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm Tired, of people trying to display a "cow" as a cow that is "New and
>> Improved" version (chocolate ?), don't muddy the already bad waters of
>> gasification, with cross-gendered, yuppie-flavored, names of gases that
>> simply ain't so.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hate to say it, but... "It's people like you, that have given
>> gasification the bad name it already has with investors, with your "pie in
>> the sky claims"".
>>
>> Jim, run your "Syngas" un-stripped in an FT process, (that works), THEN, I
>> will relinquish the "the moon" to you....(you will deserve it, for your
>> advances in the quantum mechanics of physics).
>>
>> Greg Manning,
>> Canadian Gasifier Ltd.  (http://www.cangas.ca)
>> Building Hi-Performance Gasifiers, Since 2001
>>
>> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
>> 1 (204) 726-1851
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org]On Behalf Of Jeff
>> Davis
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 6:35 PM
>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas on Wiki_
>>
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>> As a side note; I drive by a gasoline station, maybe Shell, that puffs
>> that they're gasoline has nitrogen added. Interesting...
>>
>>
>> H. N. Y.,
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 21:07 -0800, jim mason wrote:
>>> percentage nitrogen density isn't really the relevant racetrack to
>>> work out the real issues with this tech.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ________________________________________________
>>
>> www.puffergas.com
>>
>> Sent from any port in the storm via  Acer netbook & Ubuntu Remix.
>>
>>
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