[Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk

Mon Dec 19 12:02:41 CST 2011

Guys,

I am pretty ignorant on the subject.  A while back I learned to my horror 
that most dark liquors are simply grain alcohol and the color and flavoring 
is from the burnt charcoal barrel.  Doesn't this mean that I am paying quite 
a bit to drink the tar from a charred oak barrel?  I agree that some tars 
might be a health problem, but some are quite valuable and might even be 
marketable to the correct food product industry.

Robert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification" 
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>; "Anand Karve" <adkarve at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk

> Dear Otto
>
> It is probably an issue of "some smokes and tars are not harmful, but 
> others are, depending on how they are made, and how they are used."
>
> If ALL smokes and tars were harmful, then their use in food should be 
> forbidden. With the degree technology, and number of  researchers looking 
> for ways to apply it, if a clear case could be made for banning something, 
> then some ambitious researcher would be advocating it!!
>
> Clearly, some "tars" are carcinogenic and/or poisonous and/or toxic when 
> consumed by people. On the other hand, some may be less hazardous than 
> alternatives. For example, if Smoked Food had a 1 in a billion chance of 
> causing cancer, and if non-smoked food had a 1 in a million chance of 
> causing death by a micro-organism that could be killed by smoke, then it 
> is very sensible to smoke and eat food.
>
> Should we ban "poisonous chemicals?" Of course not! Chlorine gas was used 
> as a "Weapon of War" because of its poisonous nature, yet millions of 
> lives are saved annually, as a result of treatment of water supplies with 
> chlorine.
>
> As it applies to gasification and biochar, various tars and pyrolysis 
> compounds may indeed be "poisonous", if we ate them, inhaled them, or 
> applied them directly to our skin. Like chlorine. On the other hand, if 
> these same "bad" chemicals were left in biochar, they may have a potential 
> to do great good, (as does chlorine in water treatment) by killing off 
> harmful soil organisms that reduce plant growth and yields.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin Chisholm
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Otto Formo" <formo-o at online.no>
> To: "Anand Karve" <adkarve at gmail.com>; "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis 
> and gasification" <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>
>
>> Dear A.D. Karve and Luke,
>> thanks for your thoughtfull comments about coffee, the roasting process 
>> and smoked salmon.
>> Correct, the coffee must be a VERY slow poison;
>> My mother just turned 95 and has been drinking coffee her whole life 
>> (Norwegians are the most coffe drinking people on the planet taken the 
>> number of the population into consideration.........avarge lifespan of 
>> women 84 and men 81.............
>> She is still cooking her own meals and coffee on a electrified cookstove, 
>> but the coffee is roasted............
>> Salmon, smoked or not, is our main export product, after oil and gas and 
>> hydropower.
>> Most of the salmon goes to Russia and Europe, but even China seems to 
>> like the raw and tasty tar.................:)
>> Both cold and warm smokey tar are used to give it different tastes, using 
>> a special and small schrub from the forest cover.
>>
>> Our new slogan should be;
>> Use the Up Draft gasifier and dry biomass to cook your coffee and smoke 
>> your fish and stay healty for as long as you last......or even 
>> longer........:)
>>
>> Take care and have a Clean Burning New Year to you all.
>>
>> Otto
>>
>>> From: Anand Karve [adkarve at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: 2011-12-19 13:32:26 MET
>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification 
>>> [gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org]
>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>>
>>> Dear Luke,
>>> Your message reminds me of a conversation in the course of which
>>> somebody said that coffee was a slow poison. An old man agreed with him,
>>> saying that it was indeed a very slow poison, because he had been
>>> drinking it for the last 90 years. Roasted coffee, by the way, is a
>>> torrefied product.
>>> Yours
>>> A.D.Karve
>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Luke Gardner <lgardner at wwest.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >   Mark and ALL,
>>> > I make some top notch smoked salmon, and know what it takes to make 
>>> > people
>>> > say ?wow! that is really good?.  the funny thing is that what it takes 
>>> > to
>>> > properly smoke salmon is pretty much exactly what a guy tries to avoid 
>>> > with
>>> > the gasifier a cold tar laiden smoke.  Is this harmful to your 
>>> > health????
>>> > it doesn?t matter as it tastes good enough ?to die for?, it just makes 
>>> > me
>>> > wonder, have our genetics been time altered (somewhat like the 
>>> > signaling
>>> > network of the trees you talk of) to be predisposed to enjoy the taste 
>>> > of
>>> > something cooked over a ?cold/smoky fire??
>>> > Luke
>>> >
>>> >  *From:* Mark Ludlow <mark at ludlow.com>
>>> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:25 PM
>>> > *To:* 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and 
>>> > gasification'<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> > *Subject:* Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Jeff and...****
>>> >
>>> > There's a lot of different opinions on the value/harm of the "tars" in 
>>> > the
>>> > soil. My instinct says "no-no!" but some people drink the distillate 
>>> > and
>>> > think that it is God's blessing!****
>>> >
>>> > If we observe natural phenomena, for instance forest burns (which,
>>> > presumably, have multiple regimens of combustion, from hardly-at-all 
>>> > to
>>> > pure ash) we see that there is usually a strong recovery after a burn, 
>>> > but
>>> > the ecosystems are usually not replaced, intact, but forced to begin 
>>> > their
>>> > long, progressive cycle once again.****
>>> >
>>> > A study of 19th-century charcoal kilns in the Eastern U.S., show that
>>> > there is a lasting effect on the sites on which they were located. On 
>>> > the
>>> > other hand, many suggest that the aromatic compounds produced during
>>> > pyrolytic combustion are valuable components of the signaling network 
>>> > that
>>> > tells seeds and the soil ecosystem that the sky has opened and that 
>>> > the
>>> > system has an altered competitive structure.****
>>> >
>>> > Maybe a little is good; and a lot is bad. But despite the evidence 
>>> > that
>>> > many of the polyaromatic hydrocarbons remaining in the char produced 
>>> > for
>>> > biochar applications is carcinogenic, some certifying bodies have 
>>> > declared
>>> > it "Organic" and suitable for unrestricted use in agricultural 
>>> > applications.
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > Who knows?****
>>> >
>>> > Best, Mark****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:
>>> > gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Davis
>>> > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:18 PM
>>> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > Dear Tom,****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, 2011-12-17 at 09:43 -0500, Thomas Reed wrote:****
>>> >
>>> > >  including an open PYROMID, and any junk biomass, we all have easy 
>>> > > ****
>>> >
>>> > > access to as much charcoal as we could ever need, for the first time 
>>> > > ***
>>> > *
>>> >
>>> > > in history.****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > This summer I tried numerous switchgrass bale PYROMID's with no 
>>> > practical
>>> > charcoal production but it did make some impressive and scary fires.
>>> > Personally I would be reluctant to promote this just because of the 
>>> > danger
>>> > of starting forest fires and what not. ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > > So we really have no excuse for cleaning up TLUD gas if we wish to. 
>>> > > ***
>>> > *
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > As long as we don't place the tar laden charcoal in the soil but use 
>>> > it as
>>> > a fuel. In other words clean charcoal added into the soil is much 
>>> > better
>>> > that adding charcoal that was used to filter toxic waste. ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > > Compare to natural gas at 1000 Btu/ scf. ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > Locally the troops have landed and marcellus shale gas is under
>>> > production. It's been stated that this type of well will last for 30 
>>> > to***
>>> > *
>>> >
>>> > 50 years and beneath that even more gas. Already, locally, the price 
>>> > of
>>> > natural gas has dropped.****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > Jeff****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________****
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
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>>> >
>>> > ****
>>> >
>>> > for more Gasifiers,  News and Information see our web site:****
>>> >
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>>> >
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>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ***
>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute 
>>> (ARTI)
>>
>
>
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