[Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
Kevin
kchisholm at ca.inter.net
Mon Dec 19 16:01:00 CST 2011
Dear Robert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Gersch" <Robert at rkgenterprises.com>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
> Guys,
>
> I am pretty ignorant on the subject. A while back I learned to my horror
> that most dark liquors are simply grain alcohol and the color and
> flavoring is from the burnt charcoal barrel. Doesn't this mean that I am
> paying quite a bit to drink the tar from a charred oak barrel?
# Most distilled alcohol is "water white" like Vodka. Depending on how it is
distilled, products in addition to ethanol and alcohol can be recovered.
These "additional products" can add greatly to the flavour of the eventual
drink, but some of these additional products can be undesirable. Aging in
charred barrels preferentially removes most of the "undesirables" and leaves
behind most of the "desirables." As I understand it, the pyrolysis products
generally add only little color and little smokey flavor Scotch Whiskeys
known for their smokiness have teh smoke efffect added at the malting stage.
Dark or "Black" rums usually get their color and flavor from carmelized
sugar additions. So... it looks like you are getting very little tar from
teh charred barrels. :-)
I agree that some tars
> might be a health problem, but some are quite valuable and might even be
> marketable to the correct food product industry.
# It seems that there is already an industry supplying "liquid smoke" for
food enhancement.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_smoke
Best wishes,
Kevin Chisholm
>
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>; "Anand Karve" <adkarve at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>
>
>> Dear Otto
>>
>> It is probably an issue of "some smokes and tars are not harmful, but
>> others are, depending on how they are made, and how they are used."
>>
>> If ALL smokes and tars were harmful, then their use in food should be
>> forbidden. With the degree technology, and number of researchers looking
>> for ways to apply it, if a clear case could be made for banning
>> something, then some ambitious researcher would be advocating it!!
>>
>> Clearly, some "tars" are carcinogenic and/or poisonous and/or toxic when
>> consumed by people. On the other hand, some may be less hazardous than
>> alternatives. For example, if Smoked Food had a 1 in a billion chance of
>> causing cancer, and if non-smoked food had a 1 in a million chance of
>> causing death by a micro-organism that could be killed by smoke, then it
>> is very sensible to smoke and eat food.
>>
>> Should we ban "poisonous chemicals?" Of course not! Chlorine gas was used
>> as a "Weapon of War" because of its poisonous nature, yet millions of
>> lives are saved annually, as a result of treatment of water supplies with
>> chlorine.
>>
>> As it applies to gasification and biochar, various tars and pyrolysis
>> compounds may indeed be "poisonous", if we ate them, inhaled them, or
>> applied them directly to our skin. Like chlorine. On the other hand, if
>> these same "bad" chemicals were left in biochar, they may have a
>> potential to do great good, (as does chlorine in water treatment) by
>> killing off harmful soil organisms that reduce plant growth and yields.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin Chisholm
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Otto Formo" <formo-o at online.no>
>> To: "Anand Karve" <adkarve at gmail.com>; "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis
>> and gasification" <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>
>>
>>> Dear A.D. Karve and Luke,
>>> thanks for your thoughtfull comments about coffee, the roasting process
>>> and smoked salmon.
>>> Correct, the coffee must be a VERY slow poison;
>>> My mother just turned 95 and has been drinking coffee her whole life
>>> (Norwegians are the most coffe drinking people on the planet taken the
>>> number of the population into consideration.........avarge lifespan of
>>> women 84 and men 81.............
>>> She is still cooking her own meals and coffee on a electrified
>>> cookstove, but the coffee is roasted............
>>> Salmon, smoked or not, is our main export product, after oil and gas and
>>> hydropower.
>>> Most of the salmon goes to Russia and Europe, but even China seems to
>>> like the raw and tasty tar.................:)
>>> Both cold and warm smokey tar are used to give it different tastes,
>>> using a special and small schrub from the forest cover.
>>>
>>> Our new slogan should be;
>>> Use the Up Draft gasifier and dry biomass to cook your coffee and smoke
>>> your fish and stay healty for as long as you last......or even
>>> longer........:)
>>>
>>> Take care and have a Clean Burning New Year to you all.
>>>
>>> Otto
>>>
>>>> From: Anand Karve [adkarve at gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: 2011-12-19 13:32:26 MET
>>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>> [gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org]
>>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>>>
>>>> Dear Luke,
>>>> Your message reminds me of a conversation in the course of which
>>>> somebody said that coffee was a slow poison. An old man agreed with
>>>> him,
>>>> saying that it was indeed a very slow poison, because he had been
>>>> drinking it for the last 90 years. Roasted coffee, by the way, is a
>>>> torrefied product.
>>>> Yours
>>>> A.D.Karve
>>>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 4:05 AM, Luke Gardner <lgardner at wwest.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Mark and ALL,
>>>> > I make some top notch smoked salmon, and know what it takes to make
>>>> > people
>>>> > say ?wow! that is really good?. the funny thing is that what it
>>>> > takes to
>>>> > properly smoke salmon is pretty much exactly what a guy tries to
>>>> > avoid with
>>>> > the gasifier a cold tar laiden smoke. Is this harmful to your
>>>> > health????
>>>> > it doesn?t matter as it tastes good enough ?to die for?, it just
>>>> > makes me
>>>> > wonder, have our genetics been time altered (somewhat like the
>>>> > signaling
>>>> > network of the trees you talk of) to be predisposed to enjoy the
>>>> > taste of
>>>> > something cooked over a ?cold/smoky fire??
>>>> > Luke
>>>> >
>>>> > *From:* Mark Ludlow <mark at ludlow.com>
>>>> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 17, 2011 7:25 PM
>>>> > *To:* 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
>>>> > gasification'<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> > *Subject:* Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Jeff and...****
>>>> >
>>>> > There's a lot of different opinions on the value/harm of the "tars"
>>>> > in the
>>>> > soil. My instinct says "no-no!" but some people drink the distillate
>>>> > and
>>>> > think that it is God's blessing!****
>>>> >
>>>> > If we observe natural phenomena, for instance forest burns (which,
>>>> > presumably, have multiple regimens of combustion, from hardly-at-all
>>>> > to
>>>> > pure ash) we see that there is usually a strong recovery after a
>>>> > burn, but
>>>> > the ecosystems are usually not replaced, intact, but forced to begin
>>>> > their
>>>> > long, progressive cycle once again.****
>>>> >
>>>> > A study of 19th-century charcoal kilns in the Eastern U.S., show that
>>>> > there is a lasting effect on the sites on which they were located. On
>>>> > the
>>>> > other hand, many suggest that the aromatic compounds produced during
>>>> > pyrolytic combustion are valuable components of the signaling network
>>>> > that
>>>> > tells seeds and the soil ecosystem that the sky has opened and that
>>>> > the
>>>> > system has an altered competitive structure.****
>>>> >
>>>> > Maybe a little is good; and a lot is bad. But despite the evidence
>>>> > that
>>>> > many of the polyaromatic hydrocarbons remaining in the char produced
>>>> > for
>>>> > biochar applications is carcinogenic, some certifying bodies have
>>>> > declared
>>>> > it "Organic" and suitable for unrestricted use in agricultural
>>>> > applications.
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > Who knows?****
>>>> >
>>>> > Best, Mark****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:
>>>> > gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
>>>> > Davis
>>>> > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:18 PM
>>>> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] gasifier type updarft use rice husk
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > Dear Tom,****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > On Sat, 2011-12-17 at 09:43 -0500, Thomas Reed wrote:****
>>>> >
>>>> > > including an open PYROMID, and any junk biomass, we all have easy
>>>> > > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > > access to as much charcoal as we could ever need, for the first
>>>> > > time ***
>>>> > *
>>>> >
>>>> > > in history.****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > This summer I tried numerous switchgrass bale PYROMID's with no
>>>> > practical
>>>> > charcoal production but it did make some impressive and scary fires.
>>>> > Personally I would be reluctant to promote this just because of the
>>>> > danger
>>>> > of starting forest fires and what not. ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > > So we really have no excuse for cleaning up TLUD gas if we wish to.
>>>> > > ***
>>>> > *
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > As long as we don't place the tar laden charcoal in the soil but use
>>>> > it as
>>>> > a fuel. In other words clean charcoal added into the soil is much
>>>> > better
>>>> > that adding charcoal that was used to filter toxic waste. ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > > Compare to natural gas at 1000 Btu/ scf. ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > Locally the troops have landed and marcellus shale gas is under
>>>> > production. It's been stated that this type of well will last for 30
>>>> > to***
>>>> > *
>>>> >
>>>> > 50 years and beneath that even more gas. Already, locally, the price
>>>> > of
>>>> > natural gas has dropped.****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > Best regards,****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > Jeff****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________****
>>>> >
>>>> > Gasification mailing list****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>>> >
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>>>> >
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>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > ****
>>>> >
>>>> > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:****
>>>> >
>>>> > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/****
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Gasification mailing list
>>>> >
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>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ***
>>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>>>> (ARTI)
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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