[Gasification] Complex issue analysis

[Luke Gardner]

Alex,
this is not a complex issue at all,  the majority that reside in the greater 
Olympia area are so  tree hugging, liberal it is not suprising at all that 
the memorandum is the outcome.  I too wadded through a bunch of the info as 
this hits somewhat close to home for me living in Washington.  Tom hit the 
nail on the head

"There are
> lots of folks in this world who have no real contribution to society and 
> simply object to someone else doing something. They can't stand to see 
> it."

these people think eggs are made at albertsons and refuse to acnowledge the 
oil used in production,  toilet paper is made form recycled material not 
trees, power to heat and light their homes comes from the switch on the wall 
not the coal fired power plant just 30 miles south.

there is a whole pile of hipocritical, ignorant self acclaimed do-gooders in 
Olympia, these type of people are spread throught the world, what's alarming 
about the Olympia area is the concentration.

these people are against everything well,,,   except driving an suv to 
albertsons to buy a dozen eggs for a nice sunday breakfast to be enjoyed in 
the leisure of their electricaly lit 72 degree home on this brisk morning. 
these people just don't recognize    you've got to pay to play concept.

I don't want to destroy our planet, or our collective health,  but do 
understand there is no easy out here, and that we as people need to make the 
better decicions instead of the poorer decisions.  this is why we have 
regulatory agencys, and it seems to me that if a concept or plan can run 
within allowable regulation that it should be allowed.  If these people in 
Olympia want to really do good they should focus their attention with the 
reulatory agencys to do what they were deisgned to do, keep us as healthy 
and whole as possible.
To spearhead projects  that would comply with standing regulations and put a 
moratorium  in place seems like an ignorant, stiffeling, hipocrtiical, ..... 
and sadly tyipical thing for Olympians to do.
You would have to meet a few to fully understand, their condition is 
special.   My only prayer is that the condition is not contagious, but 
terminal.

Luke Gardner



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <linvent at aol.com>
To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Complex issue analysis


> Dear Alex,
>     In any complex analysis there needs to be a weighing factor assigned 
> to each variable and then evaluated with this weight. Of course, any 
> objection can be raised, but how valid is it? There are lots of folks in 
> this world who have no real contribution to society and simply object to 
> someone else doing something. They can't stand to see it. A lot of public 
> hearings are witch hunts with someone in charge who knows the difference.
>     Dust, road access, truck traffic, site particulate generation are all 
> factors which are considered in at least an air permit for a facility. All 
> of this is usually contemplated in the air emission permitting process and 
> there is no magic in it, just complex rules which are created to define 
> what the limits to a project are. The method of creating these rules and 
> their completeness cannot be set aside by a group which thinks it has a 
> better way. This actually is a pre-emption of federal regulations set 
> forth for environmental standards and is inherently stupid and probably 
> unconstitutional. An agency which sets up it's own environmental 
> regulations without due process of setting standards, having hearings, 
> etc. is not allowed under most State laws and certainly Federal. A 
> competent court would have no trouble setting their actions aside.
> Sincerely,
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> President
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex English <english at kingston.net>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification 
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Sun, Feb 20, 2011 8:21 am
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Emissions fines
>
> Tom,
>
> I spent some time with the Thurston County Moratorium link. I waded
> through the presentations then  turned of the tv sound on Hockey Fight
> in Canada and listened to the audio from the very civil public hearings
> on the moratorium. There was a comment that the ratio of those
> for-and-against the moratorium on "biomass" was  about 70-1. That sound
> about right. Non loggers and farmers to loggers and farmers. Can't do
> math to those who can. Uninformed to informed.
>
>  How unfair, simplistic and cynical of me. I love trees and clean low
> CO2 air too.
>
> Perhaps they know at a deeper level that as a fossil/nuke society we are
> sinners and bioenergy talk is just a weak kneed genuflect towards the
> cross of sustainability and then back to work. We are going to heat our
> bricks and mortar,( or plastic tunnels :) one way or another, no
> sweaters required.
>
> To be fairer, many just thought the issue was complex and needed the
> extra time for more analysis. They quoted the Mass study on the biomass
> CO2  pulse, the lower efficiencies of electrical power generation from
> biomass, the concerns about PM 2.5, problems with dust at McNeil in
> Vermont, diesel truck emissions, and on. There are thoughtful responses
> to all points but inevitably they entail a cost/benefit analysis that
> provides fuel to both sides of the debate.
>
> Can we successfully weigh distant benefits with local costs? Is there
> any real way to weigh the raising one pollutant level against the
> lowering of another?
>
> It isn't getting any easier is it?
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> On 2/19/2011 12:48 PM, Tom Miles wrote:
>
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