[Gasification] [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 17, Issue 35

Tom Miles tmiles at trmiles.com
Wed Jan 25 11:20:49 CST 2012


Philip,

Thanks for the reference. It looks like the CarboConsult gasifier from South
Africa. 
http://www.carboconsult.com/ 


http://www.erc.uct.ac.za/jesa/jesa-currentabstracts.htm 
Volume 22 No 4: December 2011

The technical pre-feasibility to use briquettes made from wood and
agricultural waste for gasification in a downdraft gasifier for electricity
generation

Pholoso Malatji, Ntshengedzeni Sampson Mamphweli and Martina Meincken

Biomass can be converted to energy through various thermochemical and
biological processes. Gasification is one of the thermochemical processes
that has recently gained popularity, because it achieves higher conversion
efficiencies than, for example, incinerators, boilers or furnaces. Fixed-bed
downdraft gasifiers are preferred for electricity generation, because they
produce very little tar, but on the other hand, they are limited with regard
to biomass properties, such as particle size, bulk density and moisture
content. Biomass material with a heterogeneous size is usually processed
into pellets or briquettes, which have to be mechanically strong enough to
be handled. Cohesive strength is provided by residual moisture and lignin
present in most biomass. However, the briquetting process becomes more
complicated if one wants to add agricultural waste products that do not
necessarily contain lignin as binders. The aim of this work was to process
wood chips, grape skins and chicken litter into briquettes that are
mechanically stable and have a sufficiently high energy content, as well as
adequate bulk density for gasification. The performance of these briquettes
in a downdraft gasifier was simulated with a program developed for wood,
which was modified to optimise the briquette yield. The results showed a
gasification performance comparable to solid pine wood, implying that the
blended briquettes could be used as fuel for a downdraft biomass gasifier.
Unfortunately, the briquettes proved too instable to experimentally verify
the performance in a gasifier. This paper describes the properties of the
briquettes as well as the gasification simulation results. 


Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Philip Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:48 PM
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 17, Issue 35

The latest edition of Journal of Energy in Southern Africa, Vol 22 No4
(November 2011) has an article on the use of biowaste briquettes in a
downdraft gasifier for electricity production (pp 2-7)

Prof Philip Lloyd
Energy Institute
Cape Peninsula University of Technology
PO Box 652, Cape Town 8000
Tel: +27 21 460 4216
Fax: +27 21 460 3828
Cell: 083 441 5247



-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
Sent: 24 January 2012 07:45
To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Stoves Digest, Vol 17, Issue 35

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: The upside of Down feed (Alex English)
   2. Re: The upside of Down feed (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
   3. Re: [Ethos] ETHOS schedule (Choppalli Venkata Krishna)
   4. Re: The upside of Down feed (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
   5. Re: [Ethos] ETHOS schedule (Otto Formo)
   6. Re: [Ethos] ETHOS schedule (Alex English)
   7. Re: [Ethos] ETHOS schedule (Tom Miles)
   8. Total Energy Wiki launched (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
   9. Re: The upside of Down feed (rongretlarson at comcast.net)
  10. Re: The upside of Down feed (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:45:36 -0500
From: Alex English <english at kingston.net>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed
Message-ID: <4F1E0D40.5010209 at kingston.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Dear Crispin,

On 22/01/2012 10:36 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Dear Alex
>
> This is interesting news. The grate looks great, and if there is a 
> pile of char that is maintained in front, we must conspire to burn it.
>
Not so fast. I rather like the idea of a naturally formed  biochar venturi:)
>
> To review, it is a crossdraft fire with all the advantages inherent in
> it: refuellable and lots of room for flames.
>
> If the char builds up in front of the hopper but self-limits (i.e. 
> burns away) then it has to be eaten by the passing flame and available 
> O2. That being so, I see a couple of options. One is to admit air 
> through some small holes (1.6, 2.0mm) drilled under the early part of 
> the pile (on the grate side of the pile). That will bleed air under 
> the char which is a good way to burn it.  Another is to change the 
> shape of the pipe in that area to allow ash to drop. I presume at the 
> moment the ash is blown into the larger chamber of the stove.
>
I see the odd spark or glowing particle fly into the stove. This is what you
see in most pellet stoves which do tend to have relatively low PM emissions.
In part that has to do with the way the size of the particles in the pellet
('sawdust' is really tiny wood chips) and how they tend to hold together.
When the hopper  does runs out of fuel the added air flow literally blows
whole charred pellets into the stove. A chimney draft is nothing to sneeze
at, so to speak.
>
> It is highly likely you have a fairly large PM10 number compared with 
> the same fuel burned in a pile in that larger chamber because of 
> lofted ash.
>
> I am really pleased to hear that the flow is so reliable. I have some 
> really short fat pellets here which are probably going to feed well 
> because they are nearly marbles.  Probably made with one of those 
> trochoid, concentric-ring pellet formers.
>
> As for the fire rising into the hopper, that is not going to happen if 
> the air velocity is high enough. Conditions we have observed it is 
> when the velocity is quite low. If the heat is enough, a rising 
> current of heated air and gas circulates in the fuel immediately above 
> the burning layer and the fire works its way up. That can only happen 
> if a) there is some air (especially from above) or b) the fuel is 
> volatile enough to run an air-free charring burn in the present of 
> enough heat.
>
> The advantage of coal, even with a highly volatiles one like the 
> lignite from Nalaikh mine, it is still less volatile than wood. The 
> talk of torrefied pellets intrigues me for that reason. It is more 
> likely to behave like slow roasting coal. Very controllable. There are 
> small coal pellets, say 16mm diameter which might feed well too.
>
> Is there any reason you can think of that the hopper, feed tube and 
> burning chamber should be round?
>
No.
>
> If you pass by the house I can show you a stove body that your burner 
> will directly attach to with several novel features. It won't be shown 
> until March and sort of solves the 'rest of a stove' for you. I am 
> pretty sure you will like it. It /might/ address the PM10 issue, or 
> not, and solves the heat extraction issues for cooking and heating.
>
> I have some Kanthal wire here which we are recommending for grate 
> material. It will work well for you and will hardly get hot at all. If 
> some small bits of fuel drop through (being ahead of the grate) a 
> pocket can be provided underneath to let them smoulder, feeding CO and 
> C and H2 into the beginning of the fire. No problem.
>
> The arrangement is made similarly on the SeTAR BLDD5 with the 
> smoulderings fed into the flaming portion of the pipe. The reason I 
> mention a wire grate is it is cheap and easy to make. But like the 
> layered flats too. It should be possible to punch that in a single 
> stroke with the right tool.
>
> How deep is the fuel in the hopper?
>
40 cm. I have materials to go up to 100cm, and I could take it up to near
the ceiling with some stove pipe, though I might have to counter balance the
stove:)

> I tried a number of things with hopper shape and decided there is a 
> general rule about bridging which is the following: if the hopper 
> tapers inwards the point of burning, there is an upper limit to the 
> height of the fuel for each degree of narrowing. I tried shoulders too 
> and they are OK further up (for example, within 1 hopper width of the 
> top of the fuel pile). On all cases, if the fuel is compressed by 
> pushing down on it or by stacking lots of fuel up, bridging occurs 
> just above the beginning of the taper.
>
These pellets are highly resistant to bridging. On the other hand I have
seen chips defy gravity:)
>
> The solution is agitation or a non-tapering hopper bottom.
>
> This is bound to be affected by the surface smoothness of the fuel 
> particle. If the pellets are shiny and hard that has to be a help 
> avoid bridging, right? I am impressed that you are able to keep it 
> feeding so well with such a significant narrowing.
>
It is difficult to measure but the pellet flow is in fact air (wind)
assisted. However they are more bullet than sail. Small dry wood chips are
sails and if they make it down through the hopper, they blow right out of
the tube.
>
> To you think it is necessary to tilt the flame tube downwards at all? 
> If the char pushed ahead it would be burned by the continuous heat of 
> the flame. Using wood, I can report that I have seen flames reaching 
> more than 24 inches along the tube so you may get better combustion 
> efficiency by lengthening the one you have.
>
Yes, a view of the flame is useful for understanding the process but is not
ideal for combustion.
>
> Thanks for an interesting (tiny) burner idea. If you bring it here I 
> have some 5mm switchgrass pellets I have had difficulty burning it 
> anything yet. Maybe...
>
I suspect the ash would bung it up, but maybe...not.

Alex
>
> Crispin
>
> *From:*stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *Alex 
> English
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:02 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed
>
> Dear Crispin,
> The pellets are 6mm dia. 1-2.5 cm long. The hole is 5cm in diameter. I 
> tried a few chips to block the hole. It usually took more than one to 
> stop it, and put out the fire. There isn't much evidence of the fire 
> mving up into the hopper. The attached picture shows the position of 
> grate in relation to the hopper. It is adjustable. A mount of glowing 
> charred pellets form in the bottom half of the  tube (6.2 cm ID pipe) 
> out  in front of the grate. This seems to be self limiting, at least 
> over the five hours it ran today.
>
> I ran it with a second hopper tube such that the air flowed outside 
> the inner 14cm diameter hopper (with lid) and inside the outer15.5cm 
> diameter hopper. The air has to pas through pellets in the cone 
> portion only.
>
> Shutting off the grate air does reduce the burn rate by as much as 
> half, but that is a guess and I am unsure if it works  for hours.
>
> but wood pellets are cheating...
>
> next, a complete redesign for chips...
>
> courting failure....
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>

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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 04:38:55 +0000 (UTC)
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, 	Alex English
	<english at kingston.net>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed
Message-ID:
	
<761568507.148960.1327379935868.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.com
cast.net>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Alex and list: 

My interest is in the first several lines , which read: 



Crispin: "This is interesting news. The grate looks great, and if there is a
pile of char that is maintained in front, we must conspire to burn it." 


Alex: "Not so fast. I rather like the idea of a naturally formed biochar
venturi:) " 


RWL: I have totally missed the possibility of a char output in your design.
I can't even see a Venturi possibility.. Can you explain a bit more on how
that can be accomplished? Have you accomplished any char preservation yet? 

Thanks. Ron 





----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex English" <english at kingston.net>
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>

Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:45:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed 

Dear Crispin, 

On 22/01/2012 10:36 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote: 




Dear Alex 



This is interesting news. The grate looks great, and if there is a pile of
char that is maintained in front, we must conspire to burn it. 

Not so fast. I rather like the idea of a naturally formed biochar venturi:) 

<blockquote>





<snip remainder> 

</blockquote>
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Message: 3
Date: 24 Jan 2012 05:01:22 -0000
From: "Choppalli Venkata Krishna" <krishnacreat1 at rediffmail.com>
To: "stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org"
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS schedule
Message-ID:
	
<1327332515.S.6194.18424.H.TlBhdWwgUy5BbmRlcnNvbgBSZTogW1N0b3Zlc10gW0V0aG9zX
SBFVEhPUyBzY2hlZHVsZQ__.f4-235-187.old.1327381282.9383 at webmail.rediffmail.co
m>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Dr.TLUD

Thanks for disseminating the details. May your tribe grow.

-C.V.KrishnaFrom: "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>Sent: Mon, 23
Jan 2012 20:58:35 To: ethos at vrac.iastate.edu, Stoves
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS
scheduleDear Mark, Angie and all,For my presentation Saturday evening (are
you calling it  Keynote?),  please use this title:Micro-gasifier
Stoves for Meeting the 2020 Goals of the Global  Alliance for Clean
Cookstoves(I assure you that it will have food for thought and discussion
and action!!)And will ETHOS please allow that to be a "public presentation"
so that  people who are not registered for the conference can attend?
 I think  this could assist ETHOS to reach out to others in the
community and to  students and faculty of the university that hosts
us.ALSO, could the ETHOS program please make reference to the Friday
 MORNING activity being presented by the BEF.  The info is below,
and  is also found at my website:   www.drtlud.com  
 Thanks.TLUD Workshop Offered Prior to ETHOS ConferenceOn Friday, 27
January 2012, the Biomass Energy Foundation (BEF) will  be offering a
workshop on the technical and practical concepts of its
 micro-gasification units. Dr. Paul S. Anderson (aka ?Dr TLUD?) will
 provide an overview of the science and technology of the Top-Lit
 UpDraft (TLUD) stove and its applications in meeting the cooking needs
 of local communities around the globe. He will be assisted by Bob
 Fairchild, Christa Roth, and Kathy Nafie   .This event is hosted
by Hydrovolts, Inc., 210 S Hudson St, #330  Seattle, WA 98134. Cost is
$25 per person, and RSVP can be made by  contacting Kathy Nafie  
 at biomassenergyfndn at yahoo.com by Wednesay,  25 January 2012.
Questions can be directed to Kathy Nafie at     303-570-6868
 .**************************Will see you all in Seattle!!!Paul-- Paul
S. Anderson, PhDKnown to some as:  Dr. TLUD    Doc  
 ProfessorPhone (USA): 309-452-7072   SKYPE: paultlud  
Email:
psanders at ilstu.eduwww.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf
  (Best ref.)>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Bryden, Kenneth
[M E] <kmbryden at iastate.edu>> wrote:>>>
All,>>>> I'm putting the final touches on the schedule and will
have it out to>> everyone tomorrow. A couple of items>>>>
- if you have time constraints on your talk (e.g., late arrival or
early>> departure) Just let me know and I'll get you scheduled at the
right time.>>>>  - Registration will start 4 pm on Friday
at the hotel.>>>> - We'll have the usual slide show on Friday
evening at 7 pm at the hotel.>> Bring your slides, we want to see
where you've been and what you are doing!>>>> - There will be no
meal provided on Friday evening - this is different>> than other
years. However feel free to bring food back to our room at the>> hotel
or call for delivery, etc.>>>> Thanks and see you there!>>
Mark>> _______________________________________________>> Ethos
mailing list>> Ethos at vrac.iastate.edu>>
http://cannon-mail.vrac.iastate.edu/mailman/listinfo/ethos>>>------
----------------------------------------------------------This message was
sent using Illinois State University
RedbirdMail_______________________________________________Stoves mailing
listto Send a Message to the list, use the email
addressstoves at lists.bioenergylists.orgto UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
Settings use the web
pagehttp://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergyl
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 02:58:54 -0500
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed
Message-ID: <042701ccda6e$06f5c6d0$14e15470$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Alex

 

>>This is interesting news. The grate looks great, and if there is a 
>>pile of
char that is maintained in front, we must conspire to burn it.

>Not so fast. I rather like the idea of a naturally formed  biochar
venturi:)



I agree and want to see it in action - it might have a good mixing
contribution to make.

 

>>I presume at the moment the ash is blown into the larger chamber of 
>>the
stove. 

>I see the odd spark or glowing particle fly into the stove. 

 

I noticed that on the video. The flames looked like they needed more tube
length, actually. You can see them chilling as they enter they open space.

 

>This is what you see in most pellet stoves which do tend to have 
>relatively
low PM emissions. In part that has to do with the way the size of the
particles in the pellet ('sawdust' is really tiny wood chips) and how they
tend to hold together. When the hopper  does runs out of fuel the added air
flow literally blows whole charred pellets into the stove. A chimney draft
is nothing to sneeze at, so to speak. 



 That is good news. How about turning the tube supplying air through the
grate upwards?

 

 

>>Is there any reason you can think of that the hopper, feed tube and
burning chamber should be round?

>No.



 OK. Might assist in suppressing CO sneakage in the corners.

 

>>How deep is the fuel in the hopper?

 

>40 cm. I have materials to go up to 100cm, and I could take it up to 
>near
the ceiling with some stove pipe, though I might have to counter balance the
stove:)

Interested to know if it will feed that whole tube. If so, it could have a
large hopper with a low slope. If you want, bring material and I will cut
and weld it for you.

 

>These pellets are highly resistant to bridging. On the other hand I 
>have
seen chips defy gravity:) 



Are they noticeably slippery to the touch?

 

>It is difficult to measure but the pellet flow is in fact air (wind)
assisted. However they are more bullet than sail. Small dry wood chips are
sails and if they make it down through the hopper, they blow right out of
the tube.



There are just so many advantages to using pellets.

 

>>Using wood, I can report that I have seen flames reaching more than 24
inches along the tube so you may get better combustion efficiency by
lengthening the one you have.

>Yes, a view of the flame is useful for understanding the process but is 
>not
ideal for combustion.



It seems from the look and the layout, that adding more flame tube
would/could bring CO down to zero, or at least undetectable.

 

>>Thanks for an interesting (tiny) burner idea. If you bring it here I 
>>have
some 5mm switchgrass pellets I have had difficulty burning it anything yet.
Maybe.

>I suspect the ash would bung it up, but maybe...not.



Ask is not the problem that I see, it is that it is so dense it will not
breathe properly. TLUD's it chokes immediately. It would need a fan to get
much air through it. But if dropped from above it would certainly flow, if
it is dry. I would like to try it. Ask Roger Samson to drop off some
different sized pellets when he next passes by your place, which is quite
often.


Thanks

Crispin

 

 

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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:13:28 +0100 (MET)
From: Otto Formo <formo-o at online.no>
To: "Paul S. Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>, <ethos at vrac.iastate.edu>,
	Stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS schedule
Message-ID:
	<2846663.2237.1327400008658.JavaMail.adm-moff at moffice9.nsc.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Dear Paul,

Thanks for the infomation and your "public presentation" efforts at the
ETHOS conference in Seatle.
Promoting gasfier stoves are still very much needed for the low income
households of the developing World.

Will you also be attending the conference in Amsterdam?

Best wishes

Otto

> From: Paul S. Anderson [psanders at ilstu.edu]
> Sent: 2012-01-23 16:27:30 MET
> To: ethos at vrac.iastate.edu, Stoves [stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org]
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS schedule
> 
> Dear Mark, Angie and all,
> 
> For my presentation Saturday evening (are you calling it  Keynote?), 
> please use this title:
> 
> Micro-gasifier Stoves for Meeting the 2020 Goals of the Global 
> Alliance for Clean Cookstoves
> 
> (I assure you that it will have food for thought and discussion and
action!!)
> 
> And will ETHOS please allow that to be a "public presentation" so that 
> people who are not registered for the conference can attend?  I think 
> this could assist ETHOS to reach out to others in the community and to 
> students and faculty of the university that hosts us.
> 
> ALSO, could the ETHOS program please make reference to the Friday 
> MORNING activity being presented by the BEF.  The info is below, and
> is also found at my website:   www.drtlud.com    Thanks.
> 
> TLUD Workshop Offered Prior to ETHOS Conference
> 
> On Friday, 27 January 2012, the Biomass Energy Foundation (BEF) will 
> be offering a workshop on the technical and practical concepts of its 
> micro-gasification units. Dr. Paul S. Anderson (aka ?Dr TLUD?) will 
> provide an overview of the science and technology of the Top-Lit 
> UpDraft (TLUD) stove and its applications in meeting the cooking needs 
> of local communities around the globe. He will be assisted by Bob
> Fairchild, Christa Roth, and Kathy Nafie   .
> 
> This event is hosted by Hydrovolts, Inc., 210 S Hudson St, #330 
> Seattle, WA 98134. Cost is $25 per person, and RSVP can be made by
> contacting Kathy Nafie    at biomassenergyfndn at yahoo.com by Wednesay,  
> 25 January 2012. Questions can be directed to Kathy Nafie at     
> 303-570-6868  .
> 
> **************************
> Will see you all in Seattle!!!
> 
> Paul
> --
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Known to some as:  Dr. TLUD    Doc    Professor
> Phone (USA): 309-452-7072   SKYPE: paultlud   Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
> www.gtz.de/de/dokumente/giz2011-en-micro-gasification.pdf   (Best ref.)
> 
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 7:19 PM, Bryden, Kenneth [M E]
<kmbryden at iastate.edu
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> All,
> >>
> >> I'm putting the final touches on the schedule and will have it out 
> >> to everyone tomorrow. A couple of items
> >>
> >> - if you have time constraints on your talk (e.g., late arrival or
early
> >> departure) Just let me know and I'll get you scheduled at the right
time.
> >>
> >>  - Registration will start 4 pm on Friday at the hotel.
> >>
> >> - We'll have the usual slide show on Friday evening at 7 pm at the
hotel.
> >> Bring your slides, we want to see where you've been and what you 
> >> are
doing!
> >>
> >> - There will be no meal provided on Friday evening - this is 
> >> different than other years. However feel free to bring food back to 
> >> our room at
the
> >> hotel or call for delivery, etc.
> >>
> >> Thanks and see you there!
> >> Mark
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ethos mailing list
> >> Ethos at vrac.iastate.edu
> >> http://cannon-mail.vrac.iastate.edu/mailman/listinfo/ethos
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using Illinois State University RedbirdMail
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
> 
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
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> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
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> 
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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 06:31:41 -0500
From: Alex English <english at kingston.net>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS schedule
Message-ID: <4F1E969D.4090406 at kingston.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Perhaps its time for a name change,

  'Chief TLUD'

Alex :)

On 24/01/2012 12:01 AM, Choppalli Venkata Krishna wrote:
> Dear Dr.TLUD
> Thanks for disseminating the details. May your tribe grow.
> -C.V.Krishna
>
>
>




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 08:12:44 -0800
From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS schedule
Message-ID: <00b101ccdab3$0a466b10$1ed34130$@trmiles.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

"Chief TLUD" would surely lead to a TLUD Casino.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Alex English
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:32 AM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [Ethos] ETHOS schedule

Perhaps its time for a name change,

  'Chief TLUD'

Alex :)

On 24/01/2012 12:01 AM, Choppalli Venkata Krishna wrote:
> Dear Dr.TLUD
> Thanks for disseminating the details. May your tribe grow.
> -C.V.Krishna
>
>
>


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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:21:42 -0500
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "Stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] Total Energy Wiki launched
Message-ID: <04c501ccdabc$a9ebee20$fdc3ca60$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

From: energypedia News [mailto:info at energypedia.info]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:38 AM



Tim Raabe published a new blog article:

Total Energy Wiki launched

International NGO Practical Action <http://practicalaction.org>  with
support from GIZ has set up the
<https://energypedia.info/index.php/Totalenergywiki> Total Energy Wiki
(within energypedia) as an online data collection system enabling people and
organizations to participate in and contribute to collecting data on energy
access in a new way. It is a grassroots, crowd-sourced way of collecting
data which could complement existing data collection systems, and provide a
broader picture of how energy services are made available to and used by
poor people. 

 

  <https://energypedia.info/index.php/File:Tew.JPG> Tew.JPG 

Go to Article
<https://energypedia.info/index.php/Blog:News/Total_Energy_Wiki_launched> 

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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:35:29 +0000 (UTC)
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, 	Alex English
	<english at kingston.net>
Cc: Agua Das <aguadas at onebox.com>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed
Message-ID:
	
<1863643859.168759.1327426529073.JavaMail.root at sz0133a.emeryville.ca.mail.co
mcast.net>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Alex and list: 

This is to further explore the idea of char production in your device (which
we should call??). 

In the exchange below, I think I have to side with Crispin - is not the fuel
essentially all combusted? Of course it is the usual two-step combustion -
with pyrolysis first leaving a pile of char - which is then itself more
slowly combusted? As the char disappears, more pellets are able to fall
down. You seem to have established stable rates of pellet and air flows such
that the pyrolysis zone is unable to travel up into the hopper. 

The Venturi effect you mentioned is one drawing both pellets and air down
from the hopper - yes? (When I wrote yesterday I was fixated on char
movement.) 

My reason for still pursuing the char production possibility is that your
geometry seems very similar to the Dasifier (concept of Agua Das - being
ccd). Das tells me he can produce char. Somehow your grate has to be
replaced by one that allows char to fall through?? Is there any alternative
then to an auger? 

Might it make sense to replace the tall chimney in some circumstances with a
blower? (To lower first costs - allowing a much shorter chimney?) 

Is this development related at all to backup heating of your greenhouse? Or
manly intended for home heating? Any applicability to cooking? 

Ron 

----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net 
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Alex English" <english at kingston.net> 
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 9:38:55 PM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed 


Alex and list: 

My interest is in the first several lines, which read: 



Crispin: "This is interesting news. The grate looks great, and if there is a
pile of char that is maintained in front, we must conspire to burn it." 


Alex: "Not so fast. I rather like the idea of a naturally formed biochar
venturi:)" 


RWL: I have totally missed the possibility of a char output in your design.
I can't even see a Venturi possibility.. Can you explain a bit more on how
that can be accomplished? Have you accomplished any char preservation yet? 

Thanks. Ron 





----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex English" <english at kingston.net> 
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>

Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 6:45:36 PM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed 

Dear Crispin, 

On 22/01/2012 10:36 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote: 




Dear Alex 



This is interesting news. The grate looks great, and if there is a pile of
char that is maintained in front, we must conspire to burn it. 

Not so fast. I rather like the idea of a naturally formed biochar venturi:) 

<blockquote>





<snip remainder> 

</blockquote>
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 12:44:28 -0500
From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"
	<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>,	"'Alex English'"
	<english at kingston.net>
Cc: 'Agua Das' <aguadas at onebox.com>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] The upside of Down feed
Message-ID: <04dc01ccdabf$d64274f0$82c75ed0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Friends

 

Agua Das is using an air aspirator for draft ? a concept I strongly endorse
for use inside a home because it puts the whole system under negative
pressure, basically eliminating the possibility of CO leaking into the room.

 

I think a significant difference is that Agua has a controlled secondary air
supply and Alex?s simple version looks like it draws all air through the
grate, or through the fuel at the grate. With a predictable fuel there is no
problem doing this once the geometry is set (for that fuel).

 

Regards

Crispin

++++++++

 

Alex and list:

   This is to further explore the idea of char production in your device
(which we should call??).  

   In the exchange below, I think I have to side with Crispin - is not the
fuel essentially all combusted?   Of course it is the usual two-step
combustion - with pyrolysis first leaving a pile of char - which is then
itself more slowly combusted?   As the char disappears, more pellets are
able to fall down.  You seem to have established stable rates of pellet and
air flows such that the pyrolysis zone is unable to travel up into the
hopper.  

   The Venturi effect you mentioned is one drawing both pellets and air down
from the hopper - yes?   (When I wrote yesterday I was fixated on char
movement.)

   My reason for still pursuing the char production possibility is that your
geometry seems very similar to the Dasifier (concept of Agua Das - being
ccd).  Das tells me he can produce char.  Somehow your grate has to be
replaced by one that allows char to fall through??   Is there any
alternative then to an auger?

   Might it make sense to replace the tall chimney in some circumstances
with a blower?  (To lower first costs - allowing a much shorter chimney?)

   Is this development related at all to backup heating of your greenhouse?
Or manly intended for home heating?  Any applicability to cooking?

Ron

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End of Stoves Digest, Vol 17, Issue 35
**************************************


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