[Gasification] Producer gas without nitrogen

Sun Mar 18 09:53:01 CDT 2012

Why not use oxygen enriched air, with oxygen content of say 30% which is
easy to produce in membrane systems.

http://www.mtrinc.com/oxygen-enriched_air.html

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 7:44 PM, Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com> wrote:

> That is a VERY interesting reply from a lurker.. :)
>
> Thank you very much Charles.,
>
> Tom, can you give us an update ?  (I understand that some of your work
> is confidential, so if you cannot, I understand).
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Charles Frame <cframe at netnet.net> wrote:
> > I have "lurked" on this list for many years--I suppose it's now time to
> come
> > out of the closet. I built my first working gasifier in 1983 after
> reading
> > the Mother Earth News article on their wood-gas truck. I would guess that
> > most of the "old-timers" who built gasifiers took their inpiration from
> that
> > article also.
> > Back then, I had read a little about molecular sieves, but in those
> > pre-Internet days information was hard to find. I had always been curious
> > about how such a low-BTU gas, composed of 65% Nitrogen, and the rest
> Carbon
> > Monoxide, and to a much lesser degree Hydrogen, traces of CH4 (methane)
> and
> > un-converted CO2 could even power an IC engine AT ALL!! Considering that
> > cleaned and filtered wood gas, as it enters the carbeuretor is mixed yet
> > AGAIN with atmospheric air containing about 78% Nitrogen in about a
> 1--1.1
> > ratio--before being burned in the cylinder combustion chambers, the
> > combustible portion of wood gas is quite small. The huge quantities of
> > Nitrogen just "go along for the ride" and contribute NOTHING (so far as
> I am
> > aware!) But since my old Allis-Chalmers WD-45 4 cylinder tractor, and a
> > single-cylinder 13HP electrical generator ran reasonably well on wood
> gas I
> > became a believer.
> > I knew 30 years ago that there obviously were industrial processes for
> > separation of Nitrogen from Oxygen. Every time I exchanged Oxygen
> cylinders
> > on my welding rig took a big bite out of my budget, so I assumed that the
> > separation process must be prohibitively expensive--especially for
> putzing
> > around making wood gas.
> >
> > I read with much interest an article in Popular Science circa mid-to-late
> > 1980's about Tom Reed's project in Colorado with an oxygen-injected
> > stratified gasifier. I always wondered what became of that project, but
> > suspected that the cost of, and amount of, oxygen required kept the
> project
> > from ever being commercialized. (I know that Dr. Reed still contributes
> > periodically to this list, so perhaps many folks would be grateful for a
> > historical update on that project. ;-))
> >
> > I haven't done much with gasification for the past 25 years. It was just
> a
> > fun hobby that gave way to more important matters--like earning a living!
> > But I can't help but feel that with all the improvements and
> breakthroughs
> > in materials science, micro-controller sensors and actuators, catalysts,
> > etc. that gasification could become a viable alternative energy option IF
> > the Nitrogen problem could be solved.
> >
> > I have a gut feeling that feeding pure oxygen into a gasifier to produce
> > nitrogen-free gas might be a net-energy loser. On the other hand,
> instead of
> > cumbusting wood-gas in an IC engine using atmospheric air containing 78%
> > nitrogen, why not inject pure oxygen into the carbeuretor mixer with the
> > wood gas? Instead of a ratio of woodgas to air of 1:1.1 would be ratio
> not
> > change to 5:1 woodgas to pure oxygen? Without all the nitrogen dilution,
> it
> > seems that the cumbustible mixture in the cylinder would contain much
> more
> > energy and deliver that much greater a force to the piston\'s
> down-stroke.
> > It seems that an on-board oxygen generator with reserve storage could
> then
> > scavenge some power from the vehicle engine to continuously provide the
> > oxygen quantities required. Could oxygen generators ever be made in such
> > mass quantities as to be cost-effective used in this way?
> >
> > Perhaps a greatly modified engine would be required to use oxygen with
> > woodgas. I've always been disturbed by how it is physically possible for
> a
> > virtually un-modified IC engine to burn wood gas and deliver ONLY a
> 50---60%
> > power de-rating burning woodgas at 150BTU/ft(cubic)as opposed to say,
> > Propane at 1000BTU/ft (cubic) or Natural Gas at 1200BTU/ft(cubic)? Does
> this
> > mean that an ideal fuel for an IC engine need only have 300BTU/ft(cubic)
> to
> > deliver power at 100%, and therefore gasoline, propane, and natural gas
> are
> > all way too BTU-rich to be using as engine fuels?
> >
> > I've read that after fuel is combusted in an IC engine that only 8--12%
> of
> > the energy in the fuel actually propels the vehicle due to mechanical
> losses
> > in the engine itself, and in the drive train to the wheels. Does this
> mean
> > that such mechanical losses are unavoidable and would be the same even if
> > the prime mover was an electric motor? Or does it mean that the step at
> > which fuel is converted into mechanical energy through combustion in the
> > engine is a huge energy loser?
> >
> > I've also read that most of the "nasty" by-products in automotive exhaust
> > have the word "nitrous" in them. Is that because the combustion air
> contains
> > 78% (benign) Nitrogen which becomes fouled in the presence of the
> combustion
> > of fuel and oxygen?
> >
> > O.K. I think I just thought of the answer to why one can't use 100%
> oxygen
> > to fuel an IC engine using conventional fuels. My cutting torch, because
> of
> > the 100% oxygen mixed with acetylene can generate temps up to 7000F. I
> can
> > guess an IC engine would run so hot that it would seize up in no
> time--maybe
> > even melt. Bad idea! But then, maybe with BTU-poor woodgas, that
> wouldn't be
> > a problem? Enough rambling....
> >
> > To anyone who's read this far, I apologize if I've wasted your time. I
> just
> > have questions and speculations that I've never seen any good answers
> to. To
> > anyone who can take the time to enlighten me, either on- or off-list I'd
> be
> > most grateful.
> >
> > Chuck Frame
> > c/o Yonsei University
> > YSKLI
> > Seoul, KOREA Quoting Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Dear Friends,
> >> thanks for enlightening me about molecular sieves. From the information
> >> received from members of the gasification and pyrolysis group, it
> appears
> >> to be within the realm of possibility to produce pyrolysis gas without
> >> nitrogen. This opens up the possibility of bottling nitrogen free
> producer
> >> gas and using it as automotive fuel. Even a TLUD stove would burn much
> >> better if supplied with primary air without nitrogen.
> >> Yours
> >> A.D.Karve
> >>
> >> --
> >> ***
> >> Dr. A.D. Karve
> >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
> (ARTI)
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
>  Regards,
>
> Greg Manning,
> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada
>
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