[Gasification] Biochar et al.
David Murphy
djfmurphy at dodo.com.au
Tue Dec 10 16:58:36 CST 2013
Hello Anand !
I seem to recall, last time I was in Pune, when I
was being shown worm, composting and anaerobic
digesting sites, the mention of the name Karve.
It's about 5 years ago now and my notes are in
Singapore so I can't be sure and my memory is a
bit slippery. Would that be right ?
Clearly you are a far more full bottle on bacteria
than I. It is a topic on which I I have found it
difficult to extract information. My knowledge is
much more of the broad brush variety than the
specifics of yours and I would welcome some
reading on the topic of soil benevolent bacteria.
I guess in strict terms you are right about
mineral solubility in water but I can't see water
releasing minerals from basalt or granite at a
rate that would support vigorous plant growth.
I wonder though, does this still apply in pure
(say distilled) neutral pH water ?). In my
biofertilisers I use a little molasses as a base
ingredient. It acts as a dust binder but also to
stumulate bacterial activity in the soil.
DJM.
On 10/12/2013 4:24 PM, Anand Karve wrote:
> Dear David,
> I agree with you that organic matter is
> essential to maintain soil fertility. The
> organic matter causes the bacteria in the soil
> to proliferate and it is the bacteria that make
> the soil minerals available to the rest of the
> living beings. I reiterate here that all
> minerals are water soluble, even basalt rock,
> although to a very small extent. Even Quartz, if
> powdered and stirred in water, would give
> a solution having silica concentration of 5
> PPM. Some other minerals may dissolve in water
> to give solutions, having
> concentration measurable only in PPB units, but
> the fact remains that all minerals dissolve in
> water.
> The microbes have the capacity to take up
> minerals from extremely dilute solutions (e.g.
> soil solution), because they have special ports
> of entry for minerals all over their cell
> surface. Therefore, in comparison to their cell
> volume, their absorptive area is large. In the
> case of plants, it is only the root hairs that
> serve as the absorptive organs. In comparison to
> the volume of the plant, the surface area of the
> root hairs is relatively small.
> All soils contain bacteria, irrespective of
> whether the soil is acidic, alkaline, saline,
> glacial or anything else. Just add a bit of
> sugar to the soil, and the bacterial population
> jumps up by 500 to 1000 times the
> original, within about 24 hours. *Anand, I'm
> really interested in this population expansion
> rate. I'm aware that some bacteria will double
> every 20 minutes but I was of the belief that
> this was restricted to a few and that in the
> main the rate of increase was much slower.***
> Sugar does not contain any minerals,
> whereas bacteria have almost 15% minerals in
> their cells (as against only 5% in
> plants, because plants have cellulose and
> lignin, which do not have any minerals). The
> fact that sugar causes soil bacteria to
> proliferate is an indirect proof, that soil
> bacteria can take up minerals from the soil.
> Apart from calcium and silica, the
> other minerals are present in living cells in
> very small quantities. They serve mainly
> as components of co-enzymes. The biochemistry
> of all living beings is similar and therefore
> the minerals needed by the soil bacteria are the
> same as what the plants and also what you and I
> need.
> I have found in the course of my work that there
> are bacteria even in soils that are deficient in
> certain minerals, and the native bacteria in the
> soil will proliferate if the soil is provided
> with sugar. The lateritic soil in our province
> is notoriously deficient of phosphorus. When
> this soil was incubated with sugar, one could
> detect only phosphate solubilizing bacteria in
> it. This is easy to explain, because these are
> the only bacteria that will survive in a
> phosphate deficient soil. If the soil were
> deficient in Nitrogen, one would have found in
> the soil only bacteria that fix atmospheric
> nitrogen.
> The microbes form food chains in the soil. For
> example the bacteria are eaten by amoebae, the
> amoebae are eaten by flat worms and free living
> nematodes*(What about earthworms ?)* they are in
> turn eaten by arthropods and so on. At each
> step, the carbon content of these organisms gets
> reduced, because the organisms are constantly
> respiring. Along with the carbon, the organisms
> are losing a corresponding amount of minerals,
> but when the minerals are released from the
> cells and bodies of the living, they are no
> longer in the form of original minerals but they
> are in the form of water soluble organic
> molecules, which can be readily taken up by plants.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 8:21 AM, David Murphy
> <djfmurphy at dodo.com.au
> <mailto:djfmurphy at dodo.com.au>> wrote:
>
> Anand, thanks for your comments. I
> answer them in the text below.
>
> On 10/12/2013 12:13 PM, Anand Karve wrote:
>> Dear David,
>> rock dust is certainly a good additive to
>> soil, but the ordinary soil in our fields
>> is itself derived from the rocks underneath
>> the soil layer and therefore soil contains
>> more or less the same minerals that the
>> rock contains. ***Anand**that's not quite
>> correct and to explain what I mean would
>> require quite a deal of space. Soil is
>> one commiodity about which it is impossible
>> to make blanket statements.* Secondly, you
>> have quoted that according to John D.
>> Hamaker the microbes produced enzymes
>> which dissolved the minerals in the rock
>> dust. *That's not correct either. I didn't
>> credit JDH with that statement, it is a
>> biological fac**t**.* That is true in
>> the case of a few minerals which are in
>> the form of calcium salts. But water is a
>> universal solvent and all minerals are
>> soluble in water to a small extent. *Anand,
>> any mineral is soluble in water provided it
>> is in a water soluble form.****In basalt -
>> or any rock form - it is not water soluble
>> and you rely entirely on enzymes. * They
>> are taken up by the microbes
>> directly, because the microbes absorb them
>> through their entire cell surface, which is
>> a more efficient manner of absorption than
>> the plants,which absorb minerals only
>> through their root hairs. *I'd like to read
>> more of this - can you give me a credible
>> reference please ? * The soil solution
>> represents a saturated solution of the
>> minerals. Therefore, any mineral
>> molecule that is removed from the solution
>> by either plants or microbes, gets replaced
>> immediately from the pool of undissolved
>> minerals in the soil. This property is
>> called dynamic equilibrium. A 1 meter
>> thick layer of soil has enough minerals to
>> allow you to conduct agriculture for about
>> 25000 years. *Not in Australia and many
>> other countries !****"Soils ain't soils
>> !". Australia, for example, missed the
>> last Ice Age and a 1 metre thick slice of
>> our soil won't keep your belly full for
>> more than a couple of birthdays.
>> Australian soils are deficient in most
>> minerals and were almost entirely leached
>> of P. Australian topsoil averages around
>> 12mm thick. For this reason our
>> agricultural productivity leapt ahead once
>> we accessed the P in guano from Christmas
>> Island and then from Nauru. Then we set up
>> superphosphate manufacturing and the rest
>> in history. Australia is not
>> unique.****But some areas here are quite
>> mineral rich and you can add rock dust as
>> heavy and as aften as you like and get no
>> result, because it doesn't need
>> minerals. But most other areas do need
>> it and you differentiate through soil
>> analysis.* *Bu**t, all our soil and soils
>> of the world desperately need more Organic
>> Matter.* *Our national average is under 1%,
>> where 5% is a desired minimum.
>> *
> * For general interest**have a look at
> http://rfcarchives.org.au/Next/CaringForTrees/Remineralisation3-94.htm
> Got to go ! DJM.
> *
>
>> Yours A.D.Karve
>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 9:45 AM, David
>> Murphy <djfmurphy at dodo.com.au
>> <mailto:djfmurphy at dodo.com.au>> wrote:
>>
>> Joe, you might find it of interest to
>> look up John D. Hamaker on the net. He
>> was an American Mechanical Engineer who
>> turned his mind (and subsequently
>> devoted his life) to improving soil by
>> the addition of rock dust. He saw
>> global warming as a precursor to the
>> next ice age. He saw an ice age as
>> essential refurbishment of the earth's
>> resources. His argument has a lot
>> of good solid logioc to it and it's
>> worth adding to your store of knowledge
>> on the general topic. If he's
>> proven right, then we're in a lot of
>> trouble ! If you want to study it
>> further I have a DVD I made from a tape
>> he produced I could let you have.
>>
>> Rock dust is a storehouse of minerals,
>> all of which are essential to
>> growth. First to plants and then to
>> the animals which eat them - including
>> us humans. Rock dust is insoluble to
>> water but not to enzymes which are
>> produced by soil benevolent bacteria -
>> bacteria which are present in soil with
>> good OM and in compost. Many
>> readers of this string will be aware of
>> it's benefits when used as fertiliser.
>>
>> Seeking to remedy climate change
>> purported to be caused by
>> anthropomorphic global warming is an
>> extraordinarily complex question. And
>> seeking to make a contribution by
>> sequestering carbon as charcoal is in
>> itself another complex range of issues.
>> The charcoal must be first ligneos
>> carbon - wood - and it is probably
>> almost as good to lock up some of that
>> carbon in timber for building houses or
>> making furniture.
>>
>> I'd promote the first step by making
>> the sequestration of the carbon as part
>> of a broader program of building
>> building soil organic matter OM. This
>> includes animate carbon as well as
>> vegetative. At least get it up to
>> 5% to plough depth, say 10 inches
>> (250mm) as a minimum, aiming at 20%.
>> That in itself locks away a lot of
>> carbon, but of a different nature, in
>> that it's available to contribute to
>> plant growth, growth without the need
>> for chemical or artificial fertilisers.
>>
>> Every 1% increase in soil OM (world
>> wide) would be a lockup of around 30
>> billion tonnes of carbon in a world
>> which generates now (probably) 20
>> million tonnes annually. Just for
>> the record, the biggest emitter of CO2,
>> bigger than every other agency combined
>> - every factory, airplane, car truck
>> tractor etc and so on - is the soil of
>> the earth as it respires. So, the
>> more land we put down under crop to
>> feed the increasing billions, the more
>> CO2 we produce and put into the
>> atmosphere.
>>
>> So, it's a race against a proven runner
>> - so called mother Nature - and she's a
>> proven stayer.
>>
>> On the other hand, some of the wise
>> owls are now saying it's not CO2 at
>> all, but PCB's causing the damage.
>> Maybe they're right - who knows _for
>> sure ?_ Nobody I'm aware of despite
>> what they say. It's all conjecture,
>> some of it soundly based, but still
>> conjecture relying on historical info
>> compiled over a geological blink.
>>
>> Using charcoal and zeolite together is
>> a bit like wearing belt & braces with
>> self-supporting trousers. It
>> certainly works !
>>
>> The easy and less costly way is to just
>> get the OM into the soil and plant
>> stuff to grow and suck up all the CO2
>> and N.
>>
>> But whatever you do, don't stop the
>> good work.
>>
>> David Murphy.
>>
>>
>> On 08/12/2013 12:33 PM, Joe Barnas wrote:
>>> DAVID,
>>>
>>> Thankyou for the insightful overview
>>> of biochar and comparative
>>> functionality of Zeolite, of which I
>>> was not familiar.
>>>
>>> However one thing I am focused on is
>>> how to address catastrophic global
>>> climate change and for that having
>>> billions of gardeners sequestering
>>> carbon, while building healthy soil
>>> and hence healthy food is not
>>> something that Zeolite can provide.
>>> It is another tool in growing food,
>>> yes, but let's not lose sight of the
>>> long term benefit of promoting
>>> biochar. I might even try mixing some
>>> with biochar just to gain the N
>>> adsorption benefits.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:00 PM, David
>>> Murphy <djfmurphy at dodo.com.au
>>> <mailto:djfmurphy at dodo.com.au>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings Biochar/Gasifier people !
>>>
>>> Everybody & his dog seems to have
>>> something to say about
>>> charcoal/biochar/biochar-compost
>>> mix and so on. Well, here's
>>> another dog to bark his piece !
>>>
>>> Biochar is often seen as the great
>>> agricultural panacea, but _it is
>>> not_.Biochar is a name given to
>>> plain ordinary charcoal to
>>> indicate that it is destined for
>>> use in soil improvement, but
>>> basically it is still plain
>>> ordinary charcoal, just crushed
>>> into smaller particles. In some
>>> circumstances it is a very
>>> beneficial tool but it is not
>>> magical as some proponents seem to
>>> think. Just remember, all
>>> charcoal has a bio-origin - wood.
>>>
>>> In some Ag. trials in Australiait
>>> significantly improved crop volume
>>> (treble in one case) but in other
>>> instances, nothing worth writing
>>> home about.It depends on what the
>>> soil is like to start with.
>>>
>>> Charcoal is stable.That means it
>>> does not take part in any
>>> composting system (which is one
>>> primarily of bacterial digestion)
>>> and it is indigestible so that
>>> when offered as a dietary
>>> supplement (in poultry food for
>>> example) it passes through the
>>> digestive system physically
>>> unchanged but will adsorb a high
>>> proportion of the gases and some
>>> toxins produced in the process of
>>> digestion, because that is what
>>> charcoal does. For this reason,
>>> it's adsorption capability,
>>> poultry will generally do better
>>> on a little charcoal.
>>>
>>> Quite a few pages could be filled
>>> on the beneficial services
>>> provided by charcoal as it travels
>>> through the digestive system, but
>>> it does it as charcoal only and as
>>> nothing else. By all means use a
>>> little in the feed, you can only
>>> benefit.
>>>
>>> The only physical way to change
>>> the nature of charcoal is to burn
>>> it. That is why it lasts in
>>> soil (or wherever it is) for
>>> thousands of years.
>>>
>>> It has an incredibly high surface
>>> area of 360 m^2 (varies) and is a
>>> mass of minute tunnels which in
>>> turn means a very high volume and
>>> gases become trapped in these
>>> tunnels.It does not _ab_sorb, it
>>> _ad_sorbs and traps only.The
>>> difference between absorb and
>>> adsorb is the same as the
>>> difference in liquids of
>>> suspension and solution.Clay
>>> particles will be in suspension,
>>> sugar and salt go into solution.
>>>
>>> Charcoal is useful in an aerobic
>>> composting system because again of
>>> the entrapment of air in the
>>> tunnels.A composting system goes
>>> well if there is enough oxygen
>>> bearing air available to the
>>> bacteria which are a significant
>>> part of the system.The more air,
>>> the higher the population of
>>> bacteria (other factors being OK).
>>> The charcoal itself is
>>> inoperative, and doesn't change,
>>> nor is it a catalyst, it simply
>>> provides a service. It will only
>>> provide a haven for soil
>>> benevolent bacteria if there is
>>> something trapped in the tunnels
>>> which the bacteria can eat.
>>>
>>> Charcoal is a good adsorber of gas
>>> and liquid simply because that is
>>> what it does.Zeolite on the other
>>> hand, can have an even higher
>>> surface are per gram and has a
>>> propensity to entrap gases, most
>>> particularly nitrogen in it's
>>> various forms -- as gas --
>>> ammonium for example -- and in
>>> liquids as a salt of NO_3 .It
>>> actually draws them in (like a
>>> magnet attracts ferric objects)
>>> where charcoal just takes it as it
>>> comes. It is easy to see also
>>> why charcoal is so effective as a
>>> filter, but if you have a solution
>>> rich in nitrogen, run it through
>>> Zeolite and the N will be removed.
>>> Add some to the litter in poultry
>>> grower sheds, there will be fewer
>>> mortalities because the ammonia
>>> which sometimes will asphixiate
>>> small birds will be absorbed.
>>> Zeolite will take N out of
>>> solution, charcoal will not.
>>> There's 40 natural forms of
>>> Zeolite and more than another 150
>>> can be synthesised, so choose
>>> carefully for the one most
>>> appropriate to your problem.
>>> Zeolite can perform an amazing
>>> range of actions. Once used and
>>> applied as fertiliser, Zeolite
>>> subsequently will release the N
>>> slowly and remain in the soil as a
>>> balancer of N. Too much, it will
>>> take it in (so that the soil pH is
>>> not lowered) and release it as
>>> required.
>>>
>>> Charcoal's great stuff though,
>>> it's easy to make and holds
>>> answers to a lot of problems - but
>>> not all !
>>>
>>> David Murphy.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe Barnas
>>> Portland, OR
>>> 541-525-1665
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate
>> Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>>
>>
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