[Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
Art Krenzel
PHOENIX98604 at msn.com
Mon Mar 28 15:03:45 CDT 2016
I have been following this discussion waiting for someone to chime in the obvious but so far.... In general terms, an engine utilizes only about 25-30% of the total energy as work. The remainder of the energy (70-75%) is releases about equally between the exhaust and the engine cooling system. So why not use the air from the engine cooling system and divert that cooling airflow into the dryer. Now you do not have any of the dew point issues, sparks, etc such as when using exhaust gases for drying energy. The engine cooling system would use ambient air from the room and blow it into dryer with virtually no potential to cause fires or overheating of any sort. The engine usually has a fan already in place so no new parts would be required. Or you could use both sources of heat energy to dry the wet feedstock.
Just a thought......
Art Krenzel
________________________________________
From: Gasification <gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> on behalf of DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 12:01 PM
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
Dear Leland
the dryer will be for corn and/or cotton stalk chips of up to 80mm in
length.
Best Regards
Dimitris
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1. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:08:21 -0400
From: linvent at aol.com
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
Message-ID: <153b9b10d78-34e3-4c5b at webprd-a10.mail.aol.com>
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Do you want to dry sewage, manure, pomace, DDG's or other biomass feedstock?
Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
Thermogenics Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
To: gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Sun, Mar 27, 2016 12:00 pm
Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
Thank you all for your replies and help.
Andrew,Besides Dr Reed's handbook, Dr Mukunda from IISC India states the
same in a paper of his.
So I guess it is a rather safe assumption to say that you can dry wet
biomass using the syngas genset's exhaust.
If I find any experimental data, I will post them here.
This is a very interesting topic for engineers (besides gasification
itself).
Best Regards to all
Dimitris
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:52:17 +0000
From: andrew schofield <scothebuilder at hotmail.com>
To: "gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org"
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Gasification] Reply to 'Mitris' Question
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Dear Dimitris,
In Dr Reed's and Agua Das' handbook; illustrates a wet gas recycle plant for
drying green (wet) biomass. This is a direct-contact heat-exchanger; where
the engine-exhaust goes through the bed of fuel-particles. A high
temperature fan with a sealed shaft-gland forces convection of gasses from
the colder outlet to mix with the inlet engine-exhaust gas.
There is much potential energy in Otto cycle engine exhaust; about a third
of the total chemical energy in the engine's fuel. To capture this energy
and heat a cartridge full of freshly cut, green hack-wood is the best use
for this normally wasted heat. The cartridge full of very hot wood is then
lifted out of the chamber, and quickly emptied into the gasifier.
My own design makes an excess of dried wood, beginning at about the moisture
of growing hardwood; In excess of gasifier/engine requirement at about 30 KW
load to fuel 5.0 L eight cylinder Otto-cycle engine. Heavier engine loads
are the only regime where the heat required is adequate. I measured about
800 degrees Farenheight when the throttle-plate is operating more towards
open continually
Operator care must be excercised, because the wood will catch on fire, if
allowed to cook beyond bone dry and golden brown. He watches the outlet
temperature which should not exceed about 300 degrees Farenheight. Using
wet-gas recycle, the whole batch-charge temperature rises at once, instead
of burning only the wood at the inlet location, while wood particles at the
outlet remains at the dew point as our friend Toby described. The wet-gas
recycle fan is a very special machine, and is one of the kind.
In order to fund more research; I am offering a used system. What are your
requirement?
Andrew Schofield
Renewable Fuel Systems
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1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
(DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
2. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 (Toby Seiler)
3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
4. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
(shivanand at infiniteenergyindia.com)
5. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Mark Elliott Ludlow)
6. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Tom Miles)
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:01:23 +0200
From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
Message-ID: <F7E6F49C13B64CADB81BE96C4ABEAE2D at DimitrisPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Hi Nicolo.
Thank you (but I believe that giving me an offer is irrelevant to the
purpose of this list, isn't it?)
Now to the point:
According to my calulations, if we consider that a saturated genset exhaust
stream is @ 415 oC with absolute humidity of 800 gr/kgr (stream A, this is
what I ask - if its humidity is correct) and we mix it 50%-50% with ambient
air of 25 oC with 50% relative humidity(stream B), the resulting stream will
be a mixture of about 220 oC with an absolute humidity ~400 gr/kgr(stream
C).
This mixture stream C has a drying potential, but I do not know if the
assumption on stream A is correct.
Any ideas?
Best Regards
Dimitris
-----Original Message-----
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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:38:12 +0200
From: Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
Message-ID: <56F2D484.5000604 at kokaras.gr>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
thank you for your replies,
but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from
physics point of view...
Anybody?
Best Regards
Dimitris
On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.)
> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello all.
> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset
> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or absolute
> humidity (gr/kgr)?
>
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> Hallo Dimitris,
>
> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but the
> latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet
> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even
> ignite the biomass.
> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup:
> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could
> be taken out below.
> Seems simple...
>
> best regards
>
> Rolf
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>
>> Hello all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset
>> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>
--
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???????? ???????
????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
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?????????? 12
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:48:27 +0100
From: Nicol? Cerni <cerni at altair-international.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
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hello
we know we must offer our system
is it ok?
2016-03-23 18:38 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES <
dimitris at kokaras.gr>:
> Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
> thank you for your replies,
> but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from
> physics point of view...
> Anybody?
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
>
> On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
> > gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
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> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> > (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
> > 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.)
> > 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
> > 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> > From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
> > To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> > Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hello all.
> > Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
> > I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
> > What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Dimitris
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
> > From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
> > To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> > Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >
> > Hallo Dimitris,
> >
> > no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but
> the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet
> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even
> ignite the biomass.
> > I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup:
> > A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
> > They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff
> could be taken out below.
> > Seems simple...
> >
> > best regards
> >
> > Rolf
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> > "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello all.
> >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
> >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
> >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
> >>
> >> Best Regards
> >> Dimitris
> >
>
> --
> ??????,
>
> ???????? ???????
> ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
> _______________________________________
> ??????? & ??????????
> ?????????? 12
> ??????
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> www.kokaras.gr
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:11:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: Toby Seiler <seilertechco at yahoo.com>
To: "gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org"
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3
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<481235799.4175115.1458760309529.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
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Saturated means the gas contains all the water that it can hold and when it
is put in contact with your wood, will condense into liquid water and give
up 970 btu per pound of water that condenses. ? ?
On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:00 PM,
"gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org"
<gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
? 1. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
? ? ? (Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES)
? 2. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Nicol? Cerni)
Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
thank you for your replies,
but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from
physics point of view...
Anybody?
Best Regards
Dimitris
On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>? ? 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>? ? ? (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
>? ? 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.)
>? ? 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
>? ? 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello all.
> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset
> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or absolute
> humidity (gr/kgr)?
>
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> Hallo Dimitris,
>
> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but the
> latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet
> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even
> ignite the biomass.
> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup:
> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could
> be taken out below.
> Seems simple...
>
> best regards
>
> Rolf
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>
>> Hello all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset
>> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>
--
??????,
???????? ???????
????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
_______________________________________
??????? & ??????????
?????????? 12
??????
?.?. 41222
???./FAX:2410256400
www.kokaras.gr
_______________________________________
hello
we know we must offer our system
is it ok?
2016-03-23 18:38 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES
<dimitris at kokaras.gr>:
Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
thank you for your replies,
but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from
physics point of view...
Anybody?
Best Regards
Dimitris
On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>? ? ? ?gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>? ? ?
>?http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>? ? 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>? ? ? ?(DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
>? ? 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.)
>? ? 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
>? ? 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello all.
> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset
> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or absolute
> humidity (gr/kgr)?
>
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
> Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> Hallo Dimitris,
>
> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but the
> latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet
> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even
> ignite the biomass.
> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup:
> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could
> be taken out below.
> Seems simple...
>
> best regards
>
> Rolf
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>
>> Hello all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset
>> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>
--
??????,
???????? ???????
????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
_______________________________________
??????? & ??????????
?????????? 12
??????
?.?. 41222
???./FAX:2410256400
www.kokaras.gr
_______________________________________
_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Gasification at bioenergylists.org
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http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
--
gradite i nostri? piu' distinti saluti, Atentamente,
best regards, ? ?freundliche Gr??e ???????????? ???????????
Nicolo Cerni ,?N?C?A?(N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociateswww.nico-cerni.com?,
marketing industriale,?info at altair-international.com
Customers only?+39 340 830.67.97 -
Home office ???? +39 045?69.32.996 ( 24 hours voice recorder )
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Europa HQ Deutschland Hr/? Mr Wilhelm Doenne
Telefon ? ? ? ? +49. 5141.219.83.72 / ( 09:30 / 17:oo) - 5141 980 912 fx?(
DDU Celle ) Mobil ? ? ? ? ? ?+49.152 028 05119 ???(?Wilhelm? Doenne?)? ? ?
?Funk ? ? ? ? ? ? +49 176 457 38 790 ?.(?Nico Cerni?)
EPC? department - European and international contractors?
GENERAL CONTRACTOR company AES gmbh , Akazienweg, 16, D 15834 Rangsdorf (
Berlin Brandenburg www.altair-pyro.com ,??Electrical? contractors? ? ??Esiet
Office (24h) +39.02.97.37.58.01 - ?ask reception for Mr Maurizio Andreoli
?( 09:oo-18: 3o ) - ? Skype : nico_cerni?
THIS E MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL OUR CONFIDENTIALITY AND NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT
APPLIES - ?DIESE NACHRICHT IST VERTRAULICH, ES GILT ?UNSERE
VERSCHWIEGENHEITSVEREINBARUNG
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:39:49 +0100
From: Nicol? Cerni <cerni at altair-international.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
Message-ID:
<CAA0ZRvcTK5xQkea3WGWZb55-9PjN36DF+orccnW27ic8m4ap7Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hello
sorry I ll be back Monday
regards
2016-03-23 20:01 GMT+01:00 DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES <
dimitris at kokaras.gr>:
> Hi Nicolo.
> Thank you (but I believe that giving me an offer is irrelevant to the
> purpose of this list, isn't it?)
> Now to the point:
> According to my calulations, if we consider that a saturated genset
> exhaust stream is @ 415 oC with absolute humidity of 800 gr/kgr (stream A,
> this is what I ask - if its humidity is correct) and we mix it 50%-50%
> with
> ambient air of 25 oC with 50% relative humidity(stream B), the resulting
> stream will be a mixture of about 220 oC with an absolute humidity ~400
> gr/kgr(stream C).
> This mixture stream C has a drying potential, but I do not know if the
> assumption on stream A is correct.
> Any ideas?
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From:
> gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:00 PM
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3
>
> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
> (Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES)
> 2. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Nicol? Cerni)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:38:12 +0200
> From: Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
> Message-ID: <56F2D484.5000604 at kokaras.gr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
> thank you for your replies,
> but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from
> physics point of view...
> Anybody?
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
>
> On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org wrote:
>
>> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
>> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.)
>> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
>> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
>> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hello all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset
>> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
>> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
>> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>>
>> Hallo Dimitris,
>>
>> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but
>> the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry
>> wet
>> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or
>> even
>> ignite the biomass.
>> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup:
>> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
>> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
>> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could
>> be taken out below.
>> Seems simple...
>>
>> best regards
>>
>> Rolf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all.
>>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Dimitris
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> ??????,
>
> ???????? ???????
> ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
> _______________________________________
> ??????? & ??????????
> ?????????? 12
> ??????
> ?.?. 41222
> ???./FAX:2410256400
> www.kokaras.gr
> _______________________________________
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:48:27 +0100
> From: Nicol? Cerni <cerni at altair-international.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
> Message-ID:
> <CAA0ZRvchR-aM70arizWRiTosO8ikM+gjWySp89mG8iEj1B_x5w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> hello
> we know we must offer our system
> is it ok?
>
>
> 2016-03-23 18:38 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES <
> dimitris at kokaras.gr>:
>
> Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
>> thank you for your replies,
>> but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from
>> physics point of view...
>> Anybody?
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>>
>> On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> wrote:
>> > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>> > gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> > (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
>> > 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.)
>> > 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
>> > 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> > From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
>> > To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> > Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> > Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > Hello all.
>> > Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> > I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> > What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>> >
>> > Best Regards
>> > Dimitris
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > URL: <
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
>> > From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
>> > To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> > Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> >
>> >
>> > Hallo Dimitris,
>> >
>> > no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but
>> the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry
>> wet
>> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or
>> even
>> ignite the biomass.
>> > I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple
>> > setup:
>> > A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
>> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
>> > They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff
>> could be taken out below.
>> > Seems simple...
>> >
>> > best regards
>> >
>> > Rolf
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> > "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello all.
>> >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>> >>
>> >> Best Regards
>> >> Dimitris
>> >
>>
>> --
>> ??????,
>>
>> ???????? ???????
>> ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
>> _______________________________________
>> ??????? & ??????????
>> ?????????? 12
>> ??????
>> ?.?. 41222
>> ???./FAX:2410256400
>> www.kokaras.gr
>> _______________________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Gasification mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, Atentamente,best regards,
> freundliche Gr??e *?????????? ???????????
>
> *Nicolo Cerni , *
> *N C A* (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates
> www.nico-cerni.com , marketing industriale, info at altair-international.com
>
> *Customers only *
> *+39 340 830.67.97 - Home office +39 045 69.32.996 ( 24 hours voice
> recorder )*
>
>
>
> *Europa HQ Deutschland Hr/ Mr Wilhelm Doenne*
>
> Telefon *+49. 5141.219.83.72 / ( 09:30 / 17:oo)* - 5141 980 912
> fx ( DDU Celle )
> Mobil +49.152 028 05119 ( *Wilhelm Doenne* )
> Funk +49 176 457 38 790 .( *Nico Cerni *)
>
>
> *EPC department - European and international contractors *
>
>
> *GENERAL CONTRACTOR company AES gmbh , Akazienweg, 16, D 15834 Rangsdorf (
> Berlin Brandenburg www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com> ,
> ** Electrical
> contractors* Esiet Office (24h) +39.02.97.37.58.01 - ask reception
> for Mr Maurizio Andreoli ( 09:oo-18: 3o ) - *Skype : nico_cerni *
>
>
> *THIS E MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL OUR CONFIDENTIALITY AND NON DISCLOSURE
> AGREEMENT APPLIES - DIESE NACHRICHT IST VERTRAULICH, ES GILT UNSERE
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3
> *******************************************
>
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:26:06 +0530
From: shivanand at infiniteenergyindia.com
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
Message-ID: <b9c7cde22eeeaa26da34573d2fb42dfd at infiniteenergyindia.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Hi Dimitris,
Engine exhaust cannot be saturated because it is over 100 Deg C. Only
pure steam can be considered saturated at 100 deg c and 1 atm.
Engine exhaust will have a saturation temperature that is decided by the
molar% of H2O in the exhaust.
This is typically around 55 Deg C.
Regards
Shivanand
On 2016-03-23 23:08, Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES wrote:
> Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
> thank you for your replies,
> but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from
> physics point of view...
> Anybody?
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
>
> On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> wrote:
>> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
>> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals
>> C.B.)
>> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
>> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
>> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hello all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
>> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
>> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>>
>> Hallo Dimitris,
>>
>> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but
>> the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry
>> wet biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize
>> or even ignite the biomass.
>> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple
>> setup:
>> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
>> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
>> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff
>> could be taken out below.
>> Seems simple...
>>
>> best regards
>>
>> Rolf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all.
>>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Dimitris
>>
>
> --
> ??????,
>
> ???????? ???????
> ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
> _______________________________________
> ??????? & ??????????
> ?????????? 12
> ??????
> ?.?. 41222
> ???./FAX:2410256400
> www.kokaras.gr
> _______________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>
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> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:33:53 -0700
From: "Mark Elliott Ludlow" <mark at ludlow.com>
To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'"
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
Message-ID: <06de01d1857d$fe1db120$fa591360$@ludlow.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
...however, it's temperature quickly falls! Automotive exhaust systems rust
away primarily because of condensation of moisture in the exhaust stream.
Others have pointed-out that condensation is a very effective way to
transfer thermal energy, which drives moisture from the interior of fuel
particles. This is phenomenon is effectively used in very many counter-flow
drying apparati.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On
Behalf Of shivanand at infiniteenergyindia.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:56 PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
Hi Dimitris,
Engine exhaust cannot be saturated because it is over 100 Deg C. Only pure
steam can be considered saturated at 100 deg c and 1 atm.
Engine exhaust will have a saturation temperature that is decided by the
molar% of H2O in the exhaust.
This is typically around 55 Deg C.
Regards
Shivanand
On 2016-03-23 23:08, Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES wrote:
> Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
> thank you for your replies,
> but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like
> from physics point of view...
> Anybody?
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
>
> On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> wrote:
>> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
>> ioenergylists.org
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
>> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals
>> C.B.)
>> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
>> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
>> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hello all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioener
>> gylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
>> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
>> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>>
>> Hallo Dimitris,
>>
>> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust,
>> but the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used
>> to dry wet biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to
>> pyrolize or even ignite the biomass.
>> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple
>> setup:
>> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
>> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
>> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff
>> could be taken out below.
>> Seems simple...
>>
>> best regards
>>
>> Rolf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all.
>>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Dimitris
>>
>
> --
> ??????,
>
> ???????? ???????
> ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
> _______________________________________
> ??????? & ??????????
> ?????????? 12
> ??????
> ?.?. 41222
> ???./FAX:2410256400
> www.kokaras.gr
> _______________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bi
> oenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
Gasification mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
Gasification at bioenergylists.org
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 07:52:05 -0700
From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com>
To: <mark at ludlow.com>, "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and
gasification'" <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
Message-ID: <005f01d185dc$bbeaed90$33c0c8b0$@trmiles.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Both direct and indirect methods are used. Sometimes heat from the engine
exhaust is transferred to drying air, or directly to the fuel, using a heat
exchanger. The temperature of the moisture laden exhaust exiting from the
dried material must be above the dew point of the gas. By the time you
dilute the engine exhaust to a temperature suitable for drying the fuel
without cooking it - usually 50C-120C/120F-250 F - the dew point is pretty
low so you need to dry in a thin layer, like on a belt, or blow the gas
through the fuel with enough velocity, and with enough time, to let the
condensation layer work up through the pile of fuel. In a thick bed or bin
the moisture condenses in a layer in the fuel until it gets hot enough to
evaporate.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On
Behalf Of Mark Elliott Ludlow
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:34 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
...however, it's temperature quickly falls! Automotive exhaust systems rust
away primarily because of condensation of moisture in the exhaust stream.
Others have pointed-out that condensation is a very effective way to
transfer thermal energy, which drives moisture from the interior of fuel
particles. This is phenomenon is effectively used in very many counter-flow
drying apparati.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On
Behalf Of shivanand at infiniteenergyindia.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:56 PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
<gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
Hi Dimitris,
Engine exhaust cannot be saturated because it is over 100 Deg C. Only pure
steam can be considered saturated at 100 deg c and 1 atm.
Engine exhaust will have a saturation temperature that is decided by the
molar% of H2O in the exhaust.
This is typically around 55 Deg C.
Regards
Shivanand
On 2016-03-23 23:08, Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES wrote:
> Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo
> thank you for your replies,
> but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like
> from physics point of view...
> Anybody?
> Best Regards
> Dimitris
>
> On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> wrote:
>> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to
>> gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b
>> ioenergylists.org
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> gasification-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> gasification-owner at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES)
>> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals
>> C.B.)
>> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (linvent at aol.com)
>> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr>
>> To: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230 at DimitrisPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hello all.
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dimitris
>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioener
>> gylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100
>> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <energiesnaturals at gmx.de>
>> To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust
>> Message-ID: <20160321215908.f42e41dc1849bfeb92b91d8c at gmx.de>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>>
>> Hallo Dimitris,
>>
>> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust,
>> but the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used
>> to dry wet biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to
>> pyrolize or even ignite the biomass.
>> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple
>> setup:
>> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the
>> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow.
>> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff
>> could be taken out below.
>> Seems simple...
>>
>> best regards
>>
>> Rolf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200
>> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <dimitris at kokaras.gr> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all.
>>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven
>>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)?
>>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is
>>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere.
>>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or
>>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)?
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Dimitris
>>
>
> --
> ??????,
>
> ???????? ???????
> ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc
> _______________________________________
> ??????? & ??????????
> ?????????? 12
> ??????
> ?.?. 41222
> ???./FAX:2410256400
> www.kokaras.gr
> _______________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gasification mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Gasification at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bi
> oenergylists.org
>
> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site:
> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 4
*******************************************
------------------------------
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