[Gasification] Getting both heat and char ..... was Re: Where is Everyone?

Wed Jan 4 10:09:15 CST 2017

Dear Doug and Rolf,

I have also read Rolf's description of why he wants the heat.   I 
support the concept and will assist as best I can.

My message is mainly to Doug.  I was learning from you, Tom Reed, and 
others when I got started in 2001 with gasification, with eventual focus 
on what is now TLUD micro-gasification.   So I am still a newcomer and I 
appreciate further instruction.

Terminology has always been an issue, and I want to be sure that I am 
understanding your message below.  I insert my comments and questions below.

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 1/3/2017 6:33 PM, Doug wrote:
>
> Hi Paul and Rolf,
>
> Pyrolytic  gas can be quite wet so precise temperatures are risky to 
> quote.
>
Yes.  There is no scrubbing or drying or other preparation of the 
pyrolytic gas.  In the TLUD world, the gases are usually created in the 
500 C to 650 C range.  And the raw biomass fuel might enter with as much 
as 15% to 20 % Moisture Content (MC).

If the MC of the raw fuel was lower (such as 5% MC), would that help 
raise the temperature?

Hypothetical question:  Part A.   if the pyrolytic gases were cooled to 
below 100 C, water could be removed by condensation, and we would have 
lots of wood vinegar.   However, there would also be massive amounts of 
tars and "gunk" being deposited also.   However, the final, 
non-condensed gases just might have the desired temperature when 
combusted.   Those gases would be H2, CO, methane-and-related-gases, and 
what else?

Part B.  Alternatively, after the removal of the wood vinegar, perhaps 
the remaining gases plus the reheated tars, etc. could be reheated to 
become a dry, quality gas for higher burning temperatures.   All of this 
would be with losses of thermal energy during condensation and then the 
need to add thermal energy.  Could this have benefits that could justify 
the expense?
>
> What I can tell you from experience, is that it always burns hotter 
> than clean producer gas, upwards of 1,050C,
>
If that is the maximum, will this be sufficient for Rolf and his friend 
to use?    There is no way to turn 1000 C into 1300 C, correct?

But your next words I do not understand.
>
> a basic tar test for cleaner specification gas, 13-1500C is a rough 
> rule of thumb for gas exiting the combustion chamber.
>
I am not understanding what that means.   The combustion chamber is the 
"burner" of the pyrolytic gases?
>
> It has a very high radiation factor useful for refractory application, 
> but the price for this is that you will get a high ash content in the 
> kiln and flue dust emissions.
>
Something in the above sentence is not clear to me.   The "kiln" is part 
of the gasifier or is it where the materials are being heated?   And the 
pyrolytic gases of TLUDs do not have ash in them.   And I am not 
understanding the source of any flue dust emissions.

Are your comments somehow referring to the FULL gasification processes 
in downdraft gasifiers (pyrolysis AND char-gasification are both occuring)?
>
> The actual combustion is complex, but achievable in a non regulated 
> situation, emissions being the issue, both dust and toxic gas CO,CH4, 
> and Dioxins. Combustion of these gases have been our focus for some 
> 6-7 years, and current work at CalForest in California, is to use this 
> gas to dry the incoming fuel to the charmaker.
>
The above sentences seem to indicate that your explanation is about FULL 
gasification and not about only the pyrolysis process with resultant 
charcoal creation.

As I said, I am still learning.  Looking forward to your reply. Others 
should feel free to add comments.

Paul
>
>  Might be able to offer more later as you develop the concept.
>
> Doug Williams.
>
> On 04/01/17 12:20, Paul Anderson wrote:
>
>> Rolf,
>>
>> I am responding to your two messages that are repeated below.
>>
>> I am definitely with you on this matter of making heat AND making 
>> char.   I have lots of experience with small scale devices, and 
>> moderate experience up to 200 kW thermal.
>>
>> Yes, BOTH the heat and the char are important, and help to pay for 
>> the other one.
>>
>> Before taking the discussion off-list, could you please tell all of 
>> us about your needs and about your resources.   No solution is free 
>> from the development costs.   Does the kiln already exist (or is that 
>> another cost to be covered?)   And we want to find out who else has a 
>> "burning" interest in this.   (This was 2/3rds of  a pun.   2/3rds 
>> is   P   U  ; as in pew!!)  (With full respect for the non-native 
>> English speakers on this listserv, here is then meaning of the joke:
>>> Wordwizard • View topic - *PEW* !! whats that?? 
>>> <http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=63421>
>>> http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=63421 mj (a.k.a. 
>>> Michael), The word *PEW*! has been around a bit more than decades ( 
>>> see ... 2) [1859] Expressing disgust at an unpleasant *smell*.
>>
>> And where it happens does make a difference, such as with labor 
>> costs.   You are in Mexico.   In what part?   Plenty of dry 
>> biomass??  Please send info.   Okay if in Spanish (I can read that, 
>> and if others cannot, we will cross that bridge when necessary).
>>
>> Do you know Noel C. of forestry in Mexico?   Could this become a 
>> Mexico project?
>>
>> Question for everyone:  When "woodgas" (pyrolytic gases) come off of 
>> the biomass, what is the highest temperatures at which they can be 
>> burned?   That would be with stochiometric combustion, right?   Just 
>> the right amount of air.
>>
>>
>> Paul
>
>
>
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