[Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck

David Bergman bergman at cyberg.com
Thu Apr 7 17:44:05 CDT 2011


Since you mention pumice, what about a 
lightweight porous stone? (Basalt?) There are 
also porous pavers available. Don't know their actual weight, though.

David
David Bergman  RA   LEED AP
DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
bergman at cyberg.com    www.cyberg.com
241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
t 212 475 3106    f 212 677 7291

At 03:46 PM 4/7/2011, you wrote:
>Can anyone think of a material I could mix into concrete that would
>then go away leaving a lighter concrete paver? Salt is too toxic.
>Pumice would be great for light.
>Gennaro Brooks-Church
>
>Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
>www.EcoBrooklyn.com
>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Gennaro Brooks-Church
><info at ecobrooklyn.com> wrote:
> > I suspect that this issue is being pondered by every deck team in NYC
> > - What decking will satisfy code, weight requirements and aesthetics.
> > RPL may do code and weight but definitely not everyone likes the look
> > of it. Aerated concrete pavers?
> > Gennaro Brooks-Church
> >
> > Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
> > www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> > 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Tim Vireo Keating
> > <t.keating at rainforestrelief.org> wrote:
> >> The issue in NYC is not combustability but flame-spread. That's the test
> >> that yields the typical Class A rating, as far as I am aware. Ipe was
> >> assumed to be Class A because importers said it was. I spoke with the main
> >> researcher at the US Forest Service Forest 
> Products Lab who challenged this,
> >> given that no one had ever been able to 
> produce the actual studies that were
> >> being quoted by importers/resellers. He told others calling him for
> >> verification to do their owns testing. 
> Finally, someone did and the results
> >> yielded a Class B rating. Thus, all those roofs decked with ipê beyond 20%
> >> will likely go up just as readily as good oak. And the other issue when
> >> doing this testing is that, of course, ipê, like all woods, will lose
> >> mechanical properties over time. The more porous the wood gets as it ages,
> >> the more likely it is to support the 
> spreading of a fire. For some reason, I
> >> don't think this factor has ever been considered (unless people have been
> >> told that that (spurious) Class A rating will only last for 10 years and
> >> then the building owner must replace the material with new ipê.
> >> IMHO, the only answer to this of which I know would be RPL.
> >> tim keating
> >> At 10:21 AM -0400 4/4/11, John Straube wrote:
> >>
> >> There seems to be some confusion.
> >>
> >> Non-combustible in the code does not mean "it does not burn".  It means it
> >> passes a silly ASTM test, and does not lose 
> more than x % of weight (I think
> >> x=10%).
> >>
> >> All wood I have seen fails this, even fire retardent wood, because it off
> >> gases enough water and oils that it fails.
> >>
> >> Gypsum looses too much mass, and would fail, except that it is
> >> grandfathered.
> >>
> >> Fiberglass does not work. Concrete and steel do.
> >>
> >> So Gennaro, do you mean non combustible or do you mean fire rated or
> >> something else?
> >>
> >> On 2011-04-04, at 9:47 AM, Ron Cascio wrote:
> >>
> >> Check this material out;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.timbersilwood.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Can't wait to try some of it out sometime soon.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> From: David Bergman
> >>
> >> To: Green Building ; Gennaro Brooks-Church
> >>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 12:13 AM
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck
> >>
> >> Gennaro,
> >>
> >> Add "eco material" to that description and 
> it becomes an old quest of mine.
> >> Are you talking about something to sit directly on the "real" roof? About
> >> the best I could come up with when I last tackled the question was
> >> lightweight concrete roof pavers -- not all 
> that eco though maybe there are
> >> some made with flyash.
> >>
> >> In terms of wood, NYC used to accept Ipe, but I heard a rumor they stopped
> >> when the fire rating claims didn't prove 
> out. And, of course, there was the
> >> rainforest sourcing issue.
> >>
> >> I've looked for fire-rated recycled plastic lumber from time to time, but
> >> have not yet found any. (Tim V-K: any updates you've heard of?)
> >>
> >> There is a group called Brooklyn Bridge Forest
> >> ( http://www.brooklynbridgeforest.com/) that is trying to set up a
> >> sustainable source for greenheart for maintaining the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm
> >> not sure what kind of fire rating greenheart does or doesn't have.
> >> (According to one site I just googled, it carries a "high/medium" rating.)
> >>
> >> David
> >> David Bergman  RA   LEED AP
> >> DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
> >> architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
> >> bergman at cyberg.com    www.cyberg.com
> >> 241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
> >> t 212 475 3106    f 212 677 7291
> >> At 08:01 PM 4/3/2011, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> Can anyone suggest a lightweight non-combustible deck material for a roof
> >> deck?
> >> In New York a brownstone has an average flat 
> roof of 700sq.ft. The law only
> >> allows 20% of it to be covered with 
> combustible decking, which isn't much of
> >> a deck. Yet the non-combustible decking is too heavy for the old roofs.
> >> Suggestion?
> >>
> >> Gennaro Brooks-Church
> >>
> >> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
> >>
> >> www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> >> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
> >>
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> >> Dr John Straube, P.Eng.
> >>
> >> Associate Professor
> >>
> >> University of Waterloo
> >>
> >> Dept of Civil Eng. & School of Architecture
> >>
> >> www.buildingscience.com
> >>
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