[Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck

JOHN SALMEN terrain at shaw.ca
Fri Apr 8 09:20:32 CDT 2011 

 

 

From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Gennaro
Brooks-Church
Sent: April 7, 2011 12:41 PM
To: Green Building
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck

 

Hard to know what you are also wanting to achieve here. I did a roof deck in
ny for gardens and we reinforced to the roof to take the additional load. 

I imagine the roof is a basically flat tarry mess that has been patched and
repatched over the years. Is it time to completely reroof? You would
probably gain a lot of new capacity removing a few extra pounds of old
roofing.

Does the ‘decking’ need to span or be elevated over the old roof. You can
get cem-board panels (2x4,4x4,4x8) designed for recover of old roofs that
would provide a flat walking surface at about 2lbs per foot. This is 3/8”
thickness but could be put on rpl sleepers or even thinset mortared to
rockwool boards (which could provide for some drainage and insulation at
less weight). They could be painted stained or even stuccoed. Perlite
recover boards are even lighter (aobut 1lb but need more surface protection
from elements. These materials are typically fire and wind rated for
approvals everywhere for a roof application.

If you want to take a cottage craft approach you could cut rockwool board
into patio stone shapes and stucco skin them with a little steel or
fibreglass mesh (think concrete canoe). Similar to foam rocks these can be
surprisingly strong.

 

 

I suspect that this issue is being pondered by every deck team in NYC
- What decking will satisfy code, weight requirements and aesthetics.
RPL may do code and weight but definitely not everyone likes the look
of it. Aerated concrete pavers?
Gennaro Brooks-Church

Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
www.EcoBrooklyn.com
22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231




On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Tim Vireo Keating
<t.keating at rainforestrelief.org> wrote:
> The issue in NYC is not combustability but flame-spread. That's the test
> that yields the typical Class A rating, as far as I am aware. Ipe was
> assumed to be Class A because importers said it was. I spoke with the main
> researcher at the US Forest Service Forest Products Lab who challenged
this,
> given that no one had ever been able to produce the actual studies that
were
> being quoted by importers/resellers. He told others calling him for
> verification to do their owns testing. Finally, someone did and the
results
> yielded a Class B rating. Thus, all those roofs decked with ipê beyond 20%
> will likely go up just as readily as good oak. And the other issue when
> doing this testing is that, of course, ipê, like all woods, will lose
> mechanical properties over time. The more porous the wood gets as it ages,
> the more likely it is to support the spreading of a fire. For some reason,
I
> don't think this factor has ever been considered (unless people have been
> told that that (spurious) Class A rating will only last for 10 years and
> then the building owner must replace the material with new ipê.
> IMHO, the only answer to this of which I know would be RPL.
> tim keating
> At 10:21 AM -0400 4/4/11, John Straube wrote:
>
> There seems to be some confusion.
>
> Non-combustible in the code does not mean "it does not burn".  It means it
> passes a silly ASTM test, and does not lose more than x % of weight (I
think
> x=10%).
>
> All wood I have seen fails this, even fire retardent wood, because it off
> gases enough water and oils that it fails.
>
> Gypsum looses too much mass, and would fail, except that it is
> grandfathered.
>
> Fiberglass does not work. Concrete and steel do.
>
> So Gennaro, do you mean non combustible or do you mean fire rated or
> something else?
>
> On 2011-04-04, at 9:47 AM, Ron Cascio wrote:
>
> Check this material out;
>
>
>
> http://www.timbersilwood.com/
>
>
>
> Can't wait to try some of it out sometime soon.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: David Bergman
>
> To: Green Building ; Gennaro Brooks-Church
>
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 12:13 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck
>
> Gennaro,
>
> Add "eco material" to that description and it becomes an old quest of
mine.
> Are you talking about something to sit directly on the "real" roof? About
> the best I could come up with when I last tackled the question was
> lightweight concrete roof pavers -- not all that eco though maybe there
are
> some made with flyash.
>
> In terms of wood, NYC used to accept Ipe, but I heard a rumor they stopped
> when the fire rating claims didn't prove out. And, of course, there was
the
> rainforest sourcing issue.
>
> I've looked for fire-rated recycled plastic lumber from time to time, but
> have not yet found any. (Tim V-K: any updates you've heard of?)
>
> There is a group called Brooklyn Bridge Forest
> ( http://www.brooklynbridgeforest.com/) that is trying to set up a
> sustainable source for greenheart for maintaining the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm
> not sure what kind of fire rating greenheart does or doesn't have.
> (According to one site I just googled, it carries a "high/medium" rating.)
>
> David
> David Bergman  RA   LEED AP
> DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
> architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
> bergman at cyberg.com    www.cyberg.com
> 241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
> t 212 475 3106    f 212 677 7291
> At 08:01 PM 4/3/2011, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Can anyone suggest a lightweight non-combustible deck material for a roof
> deck?
> In New York a brownstone has an average flat roof of 700sq.ft. The law
only
> allows 20% of it to be covered with combustible decking, which isn't much
of
> a deck. Yet the non-combustible decking is too heavy for the old roofs.
> Suggestion?
>
> Gennaro Brooks-Church
>
> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
>
> www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>
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> Dr John Straube, P.Eng.
>
> Associate Professor
>
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>
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>
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