[Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck

David Bergman bergman at cyberg.com
Fri Apr 8 12:27:16 CDT 2011 

What about thin stone veneer panels like the ones 
used for elevator cabs? They're usually a stone 
facing on a metal honeycomb. Wondering if something like that could work.

David

At 10:32 AM 4/8/2011, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
>I found some rock wool board that could be covered with a thin layer
>of colored concrete.
>Lots of high embodied energy...but would last.
>
>http://www.o-digital.com/wholesale-products/2179/2198-1/High-Density-Rock-Wool-BoardPanel-91893.html
>
>
>Gennaro Brooks-Church
>
>Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
>www.EcoBrooklyn.com
>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>
>
>
>
>On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 10:20 AM, JOHN SALMEN <terrain at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> > 
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Gennaro
> > Brooks-Church
> > Sent: April 7, 2011 12:41 PM
> > To: Green Building
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck
> >
> >
> >
> > Hard to know what you are also wanting to 
> achieve here. I did a roof deck in
> > ny for gardens and we reinforced to the roof to take the additional load.
> >
> > I imagine the roof is a basically flat tarry mess that has been patched and
> > repatched over the years. Is it time to completely reroof? You would
> > probably gain a lot of new capacity removing a few extra pounds of old
> > roofing.
> >
> > Does the ‘decking’ need to span or be elevated over the old roof. You can
> > get cem-board panels (2x4,4x4,4x8) designed for recover of old roofs that
> > would provide a flat walking surface at about 2lbs per foot. This is 3/8”
> > thickness but could be put on rpl sleepers or even thinset mortared to
> > rockwool boards (which could provide for some drainage and insulation at
> > less weight). They could be painted stained or even stuccoed. Perlite
> > recover boards are even lighter (aobut 1lb but need more surface protection
> > from elements. These materials are typically fire and wind rated for
> > approvals everywhere for a roof application.
> >
> > If you want to take a cottage craft approach you could cut rockwool board
> > into patio stone shapes and stucco skin them with a little steel or
> > fibreglass mesh (think concrete canoe). Similar to foam rocks these can be
> > surprisingly strong.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I suspect that this issue is being pondered by every deck team in NYC
> > - What decking will satisfy code, weight requirements and aesthetics.
> > RPL may do code and weight but definitely not everyone likes the look
> > of it. Aerated concrete pavers?
> > Gennaro Brooks-Church
> >
> > Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
> > www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> > 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 1:58 PM, Tim Vireo Keating
> > <t.keating at rainforestrelief.org> wrote:
> >> The issue in NYC is not combustability but flame-spread. That's the test
> >> that yields the typical Class A rating, as far as I am aware. Ipe was
> >> assumed to be Class A because importers said it was. I spoke with the main
> >> researcher at the US Forest Service Forest Products Lab who challenged
> >> this,
> >> given that no one had ever been able to produce the actual studies that
> >> were
> >> being quoted by importers/resellers. He told others calling him for
> >> verification to do their owns testing. Finally, someone did and the
> >> results
> >> yielded a Class B rating. Thus, all those roofs decked with ipê beyond 20%
> >> will likely go up just as readily as good oak. And the other issue when
> >> doing this testing is that, of course, ipê, like all woods, will lose
> >> mechanical properties over time. The more porous the wood gets as it ages,
> >> the more likely it is to support the spreading of a fire. For some reason,
> >> I
> >> don't think this factor has ever been considered (unless people have been
> >> told that that (spurious) Class A rating will only last for 10 years and
> >> then the building owner must replace the material with new ipê.
> >> IMHO, the only answer to this of which I know would be RPL.
> >> tim keating
> >> At 10:21 AM -0400 4/4/11, John Straube wrote:
> >>
> >> There seems to be some confusion.
> >>
> >> Non-combustible in the code does not mean "it does not burn".  It means it
> >> passes a silly ASTM test, and does not lose more than x % of weight (I
> >> think
> >> x=10%).
> >>
> >> All wood I have seen fails this, even fire retardent wood, because it off
> >> gases enough water and oils that it fails.
> >>
> >> Gypsum looses too much mass, and would fail, except that it is
> >> grandfathered.
> >>
> >> Fiberglass does not work. Concrete and steel do.
> >>
> >> So Gennaro, do you mean non combustible or do you mean fire rated or
> >> something else?
> >>
> >> On 2011-04-04, at 9:47 AM, Ron Cascio wrote:
> >>
> >> Check this material out;
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.timbersilwood.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Can't wait to try some of it out sometime soon.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> From: David Bergman
> >>
> >> To: Green Building ; Gennaro Brooks-Church
> >>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 12:13 AM
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] fireproof light deck
> >>
> >> Gennaro,
> >>
> >> Add "eco material" to that description and it becomes an old quest of
> >> mine.
> >> Are you talking about something to sit directly on the "real" roof? About
> >> the best I could come up with when I last tackled the question was
> >> lightweight concrete roof pavers -- not all that eco though maybe there
> >> are
> >> some made with flyash.
> >>
> >> In terms of wood, NYC used to accept Ipe, but I heard a rumor they stopped
> >> when the fire rating claims didn't prove out. And, of course, there was
> >> the
> >> rainforest sourcing issue.
> >>
> >> I've looked for fire-rated recycled plastic lumber from time to time, but
> >> have not yet found any. (Tim V-K: any updates you've heard of?)
> >>
> >> There is a group called Brooklyn Bridge Forest
> >> ( http://www.brooklynbridgeforest.com/) that is trying to set up a
> >> sustainable source for greenheart for maintaining the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm
> >> not sure what kind of fire rating greenheart does or doesn't have.
> >> (According to one site I just googled, it carries a "high/medium" rating.)
> >>
> >> David
> >> David Bergman  RA   LEED AP
> >> DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
> >> architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
> >> bergman at cyberg.com    www.cyberg.com
> >> 241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
> >> t 212 475 3106    f 212 677 7291
> >> At 08:01 PM 4/3/2011, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> Can anyone suggest a lightweight non-combustible deck material for a roof
> >> deck?
> >> In New York a brownstone has an average flat roof of 700sq.ft. The law
> >> only
> >> allows 20% of it to be covered with combustible decking, which isn't much
> >> of
> >> a deck. Yet the non-combustible decking is too heavy for the old roofs.
> >> Suggestion?
> >>
> >> Gennaro Brooks-Church
> >>
> >> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
> >>
> >> www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> >> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
> >>
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> >>
> >> Dr John Straube, P.Eng.
> >>
> >> Associate Professor
> >>
> >> University of Waterloo
> >>
> >> Dept of Civil Eng. & School of Architecture
> >>
> >> www.buildingscience.com
> >>
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> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >> "The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the
> >> measure of our bodies are the same..."
> >>                                        - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce
> >> chief
> >> ____________________________________________
> >> R   A   I   N   F   O   R   E   S   T        R   E   L   I   E   F
> >> Sparing  the  World's  Rainforests  from  Consumption
> >> Rainforest Relief works to protect the world's remaining tropical
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> >>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
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David Bergman  RA   LEED AP
DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
bergman at cyberg.com    www.cyberg.com
241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
t 212 475 3106    f 212 677 7291  
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