[Greenbuilding] Triac Thermostats

Richard Garbary richard6 at gmail.com
Sat Dec 24 07:55:56 PST 2011


Crowyn:

Argument:
"First, outside temperature changes slowly."

Response:
The slower the acceleration and smaller Delta T =  fewer baseboards coming
on simultaneously = less demand on the grid.
The greater  the acceleration and bigger Delta T  = more  baseboards coming
on simultaneously = more demand on the grid.

Argument:
"Second, temperature changes happen at different times in different areas."

Response:
True, there's no question lots of weather phenomenon is localized, but cold
fronts usually affect broader geographic regions as per this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_front . " Cold fronts are the leading
edge of a frigid air mass, hence the name "cold front". They can bring
severe cold <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold> spells in the
fall<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autumn> (autumn)
and winter. Very often, cold fronts are associated with deadly cold
weather. Sometimes, though, cold fronts have no significant effect on the
weather. The cold fronts in the late fall become more
polar<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_region> in
nature, and tend to bring very cold weather, and temperatures can drop by
as much as 30°F. When cold fronts come through, there is usually a quick,
yet strong gust of wind, that shows that the cold front is passing. The
effects from a cold front can last only a few hours to several weeks,
depending on when the next weather front comes through. The air behind the
front is cooler than the air it is replacing and the warm air is forced to
rise, so it cools. As the cooler air can not hold as much moisture as warm
air, clouds form and rain occurs. "

Argument:
"Third, different houses react differently to outside temperature changes."

Response:
All else being equal, is there a house that will require less energy for
heating when the temperature drops?

Argument:
"Fourth, thermostats react differently to inside temperature changes. "

Response:
True, but I'm hoping they'll turn on the heat when the inside temperature
drops and the sooner the better!

Argument:
"All of those changes happen much slower than the cycle time for baseboard
heaters.  Changing that cycle time from a few minutes to a few seconds is
going to have a near zero affect on the peak load of thousands of
customers."

Response:
The quicker the response and at lower wattage per heating element
guarantees less overlap of large demand not only within the house but over
many thousands of households.

Respectfully,

Richard










=========================================================================================
On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Corwyn <corwyn at midcoast.com> wrote:

> On 12/23/2011 1:05 PM, Richard Garbary wrote:
>
>> John:
>>
>> "The grid cares about the total size of the electric load (resistive or
>> inductive) and the peakiness of it."
>>
>> Yes, I agree. Especially when a cold front comes in and temperatures and
>> thermostats drop drastically. Simultaneous switching on of baseboards
>> puts a heavy load on the grid.
>>
>
> I have a serious problem imagining this happening due to temperature
> changes.  First, outside temperature changes slowly.  Second, temperature
> changes happen at different times in different areas. Third, different
> houses react differently to outside temperature changes.  Fourth,
> thermostats react differently to inside temperature changes.  All of those
> changes happen much slower than the cycle time for baseboard heaters.
>  Changing that cycle time from a few minutes to a few seconds is going to
> have a near zero affect on the peak load of thousands of customers.
>
> I am willing to bet you can't even pay off the energy cost of all those
> triacs.
>
>
> Thank You Kindly,
>
> Corwyn
>
>
> --
> Topher Belknap
> Green Fret Consulting
> Kermit didn't know the half of it...
> http://www.greenfret.com/
> topher at greenfret.com
> (207) 882-7652
>
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