[Greenbuilding] Triac Thermostats

Richard Garbary richard6 at gmail.com
Sat Dec 24 08:10:10 PST 2011


Corwyn:

Apologies for name typo. Corwyn not Crowyn

Respectfully,

Richard

===================================================================
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Richard Garbary <richard6 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Crowyn:
>
> Argument:
> "First, outside temperature changes slowly."
>
> Response:
> The slower the acceleration and smaller Delta T =  fewer baseboards coming
> on simultaneously = less demand on the grid.
> The greater  the acceleration and bigger Delta T  = more  baseboards
> coming on simultaneously = more demand on the grid.
>
> Argument:
> "Second, temperature changes happen at different times in different areas."
>
> Response:
> True, there's no question lots of weather phenomenon is localized, but
> cold fronts usually affect broader geographic regions as per this article:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_front . " Cold fronts are the leading
> edge of a frigid air mass, hence the name "cold front". They can bring
> severe cold <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold> spells in the fall<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autumn> (autumn)
> and winter. Very often, cold fronts are associated with deadly cold
> weather. Sometimes, though, cold fronts have no significant effect on the
> weather. The cold fronts in the late fall become more polar<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_region> in
> nature, and tend to bring very cold weather, and temperatures can drop by
> as much as 30°F. When cold fronts come through, there is usually a quick,
> yet strong gust of wind, that shows that the cold front is passing. The
> effects from a cold front can last only a few hours to several weeks,
> depending on when the next weather front comes through. The air behind the
> front is cooler than the air it is replacing and the warm air is forced to
> rise, so it cools. As the cooler air can not hold as much moisture as warm
> air, clouds form and rain occurs. "
>
> Argument:
> "Third, different houses react differently to outside temperature changes."
>
> Response:
> All else being equal, is there a house that will require less energy for
> heating when the temperature drops?
>
> Argument:
> "Fourth, thermostats react differently to inside temperature changes. "
>
> Response:
> True, but I'm hoping they'll turn on the heat when the inside temperature
> drops and the sooner the better!
>
> Argument:
> "All of those changes happen much slower than the cycle time for baseboard
> heaters.  Changing that cycle time from a few minutes to a few seconds is
> going to have a near zero affect on the peak load of thousands of
> customers."
>
> Response:
> The quicker the response and at lower wattage per heating element
> guarantees less overlap of large demand not only within the house but over
> many thousands of households.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =========================================================================================
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Corwyn <corwyn at midcoast.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/23/2011 1:05 PM, Richard Garbary wrote:
>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> "The grid cares about the total size of the electric load (resistive or
>>> inductive) and the peakiness of it."
>>>
>>> Yes, I agree. Especially when a cold front comes in and temperatures and
>>> thermostats drop drastically. Simultaneous switching on of baseboards
>>> puts a heavy load on the grid.
>>>
>>
>> I have a serious problem imagining this happening due to temperature
>> changes.  First, outside temperature changes slowly.  Second, temperature
>> changes happen at different times in different areas. Third, different
>> houses react differently to outside temperature changes.  Fourth,
>> thermostats react differently to inside temperature changes.  All of those
>> changes happen much slower than the cycle time for baseboard heaters.
>>  Changing that cycle time from a few minutes to a few seconds is going to
>> have a near zero affect on the peak load of thousands of customers.
>>
>> I am willing to bet you can't even pay off the energy cost of all those
>> triacs.
>>
>>
>> Thank You Kindly,
>>
>> Corwyn
>>
>>
>> --
>> Topher Belknap
>> Green Fret Consulting
>> Kermit didn't know the half of it...
>> http://www.greenfret.com/
>> topher at greenfret.com
>> (207) 882-7652
>>
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>
>
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