[Greenbuilding] Gaviotas

Sat Feb 12 11:07:35 CST 2011

It's been a long time since I read Gaviotas, but if I remember  
correctly, the
whole idea was very much earth-centered, in the sense that they wanted  
to
develop appropriate technologies for third world countries (since much  
of
the technologies developed in industrial countries is too expensive  
and not
really available for the poor.)
They figured that if it's possible to succeed in living appropriately  
and in
harmony with nature in an inhospitable place such as that, it should be
possible most anywhere (on the planet.)

IMO this is very different from all that space crap, and the intent/ 
spirit
behind it.

Racheli.

On Feb 12, 2011, at 7:13 AM, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:

> This talk of space travel and green building makes me think of a book
> I just finished by Alan Weisman called Gaviotas. It is about a
> community in the barren and war torn area of Columbia called Los
> Llanos. Started in the sixties and alive today this community turned
> parched soil that only held a couple kinds of rough grasses into a
> lush jungle forest. They used alternative planting techniques and huge
> amounts of creativity. Their community generates its own power, its
> own water and pretty much everything else it needs. It is a real story
> of turning barren nothingness into a bountiful green utopia.
>
> But here is the kicker. The similarity to space conquest is huge.
>
> They go to a barren uninhabited wasteland and colonize it.
>
> They see this triumph of human spirit as success. And compared to the
> slums and wars of the rest of Columbia it is a huge success.
>
> But if you step back a bit and play devils advocate what is the
> difference between what they did and what settlers did to North
> America? The "barren grassland" they apparently turned into something
> useful is purely a human centered view. I'm sure the grassland felt
> plenty useful without us.
>
> On the other hand the story of Gaviotas shows that the inherent nature
> of humans is to expand and as long as there is space we will expand
> into it. I don't think humans will ever say, "I'm fine where I am, I
> don't need to know what is around that corner." Humans are hell bent
> on getting into space just like Martha Stewart is hell bent on
> becoming the leader of whatever there is to lead.
>
> Now that there is so little more space to expand into on earth it is
> natural we will expand into space. There was a time when Africa was as
> foreign to Europeans as Mars is to us now. It certainly wasn't
> "natural" for whites to live in Africa. And yet humans have lived in
> geological extremes for our whole existence.
>
> Saying space is not a natural place for humans is like an Eskimo
> saying they aren't naturally built to live in the deserts Nairobi.
> They would survive just fine after some adjustment.
>
> Gennaro Brooks-Church
>
> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
> www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:04 AM, JOHN SALMEN <terrain at shaw.ca> wrote:
>> I didn't catch Martha or space travel, sounds like everyone has  
>> been having
>> fun this week.
>>
>> I don't find the greenbuilding/star travel combination that  
>> farfetched. We
>> are the children of our culture and for Americans the starwars  
>> generation
>> rules. The was the reinvigoration of mythic archetypes for a few  
>> generations
>> and greenbuilding with its concern for meaning and transformation  
>> (as well
>> as post apocalyptic obsession) fits just as well as space travel.
>>
>> Old bricks have for at least 20 years been worth a 1/3 more than  
>> new bricks
>> given peoples interest in having facades feel timeless (another
>> anthropological oddity) - but not idiotic.
>>
>> As for living walls... when I lived in ny I rented an old boarded up
>> storefront at the base of a tenement between A&B. The door to the  
>> back had
>> been boarded up for decades. When I bust it open I found an avenue  
>> of wild
>> uninhabited lush greenery that stretched for the whole street  
>> behind the
>> tenements. Of course I immediately gentrified it by cutting it down  
>> and
>> making a nice little patio and garden. Not sure the point of that but
>> something to do with greenspaces in ny and gentrification of  
>> ghettos (a form
>> of space travel at the time).
>>
>> There is also a rule in permaculture - that if you can care (as in  
>> keep
>> alive over time)a potted plant on your doorstep you can then move  
>> off the
>> doorstep and enlarge your area of governance. Seems to me this both  
>> applies
>> to living walls and space travel.
>>
>> What is the thing with Martha - thought she was in jail?
>>
>> JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN
>> 4465 UPHILL RD,. DUNCAN, B.C.  CANADA, V9L 6M7
>> PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541
>> terrain at shaw.ca
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf  
>> Of Gennaro
>> Brooks-Church
>> Sent: February 10, 2011 6:45 PM
>> To: Green Building
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart
>>
>> I've had living walls and space travel labeled a joke this week on
>> this list. I remember being told green roofs were a joke. I got  
>> called
>> an idiot just three years ago for salvaging bricks from a dumpster.
>> Laugh on.
>>
>> Gennaro Brooks-Church
>>
>> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
>> www.EcoBrooklyn.com
>> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Racheli Gai
>> <racheli at sonoracohousing.com> wrote:
>>> It's a joke, but a sinister one.  It keeps many people's gaze on  
>>> places
>> far
>>> away, rather than caring
>>> for the ground under their feet.  It also means that lots of money  
>>> is
>> spent
>>> chasing BS dreams, while
>>> we have homeless people; untold numbers with not enough to eat,  
>>> etc. etc.
>>>
>>> Racheli.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Ron Cascio wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any kind of escape to another planet is simply a joke. Nothing  
>>>> more.
>> Let's
>>>> move on to something accomplishable.
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corwyn" <corwyn at midcoast.com>
>>>> To: "Green Building" <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:25 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/10/2011 1:47 PM, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Corwyn my opinion is that we are not at the point where we can
>>>>>> calculate numbers or make any conclusion about whether we can  
>>>>>> or can
>>>>>> not colonize other planets. The technology is not there. But if  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> last century is any indication we could be at a very different
>>>>>> technological point in another 100 years (whether we are space
>>>>>> travelling or living in caves is another question).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, I never said anything about saving the people on earth. I  
>>>>>> simply
>>>>>> said the survival of the human race.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps I just think that the idea of murdering 6 Billion people  
>>>>> so that
>>>>> a few elitist humans can escape their self-made Armageddon to go  
>>>>> live in
>>>>> a hell-hole of another planet, isn't worth hoping for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any technology insufficient to help this planet, won't allow  
>>>>> anyone to
>>>>> live on another one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank You Kindly,
>>>>>
>>>>> Corwyn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Topher Belknap
>>>>> Green Fret Consulting
>>>>> Kermit didn't know the half of it...
>>>>> http://www.greenfret.com/
>>>>> topher at greenfret.com
>>>>> (207) 882-7652
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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