[Greenbuilding] Gaviotas
Tim Vireo Keating
t.keating at rainforestrelief.org
Sun Feb 20 19:50:44 CST 2011
Exactly.
When folks refer to the planet as "the earth", all I can think is how
far we've gone down the wrong road.
tim
At 9:50 AM -0500 2/19/11, David Bergman wrote:
>As instilled by my editor recently:
>earth = soil
>Earth = name of a planet
>
>David
>
>At 08:23 AM 2/19/2011, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
>
>>Probably because earth is familiar and mars is a stranger
>>
>>Gennaro
>>347 244 3016
>>On Feb 19, 2011 1:29 AM, "Tim Vireo Keating"
>><<mailto:t.keating at rainforestrelief.org>
>>t.keating at rainforestrelief.org> wrote:
>>> In this post, Gennaro, you refer to "earth" and "Mars". Curious.
>>>
>>> tim
>>>
>>>>This talk of space travel and green building makes me think of a book
>>>>I just finished by Alan Weisman called Gaviotas. It is about a
>>>>community in the barren and war torn area of Columbia called Los
>>>>Llanos. Started in the sixties and alive today this community turned
>>>>parched soil that only held a couple kinds of rough grasses into a
>>>>lush jungle forest. They used alternative planting techniques and huge
>>>>amounts of creativity. Their community generates its own power, its
>>>>own water and pretty much everything else it needs. It is a real story
>>>>of turning barren nothingness into a bountiful green utopia.
>>>>
>>>>But here is the kicker. The similarity to space conquest is huge.
>>>>
>>>>They go to a barren uninhabited wasteland and colonize it.
>>>>
>>>>They see this triumph of human spirit as success. And compared to the
>>>>slums and wars of the rest of Columbia it is a huge success.
>>>>
>>>>But if you step back a bit and play devils advocate what is the
>>>>difference between what they did and what settlers did to North
>>>>America? The "barren grassland" they apparently turned into something
>>>>useful is purely a human centered view. I'm sure the grassland felt
>>>>plenty useful without us.
>>>>
>>>>On the other hand the story of Gaviotas shows that the inherent nature
>>>>of humans is to expand and as long as there is space we will expand
>>>>into it. I don't think humans will ever say, "I'm fine where I am, I
>>>>don't need to know what is around that corner." Humans are hell bent
>>>>on getting into space just like Martha Stewart is hell bent on
>>>>becoming the leader of whatever there is to lead.
>>>>
>>>>Now that there is so little more space to expand into on earth it is
>>>>natural we will expand into space. There was a time when Africa was as
>>>>foreign to Europeans as Mars is to us now. It certainly wasn't
>>>>"natural" for whites to live in Africa. And yet humans have lived in
>>>>geological extremes for our whole existence.
>>>>
>>>>Saying space is not a natural place for humans is like an Eskimo
>>>>saying they aren't naturally built to live in the deserts Nairobi.
>>>>They would survive just fine after some adjustment.
>>>>
>>>>Gennaro Brooks-Church
>>>>
>>>>Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
>>>><http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com>www.EcoBrooklyn.com
>>>>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:04 AM, JOHN SALMEN
>>>><<mailto:terrain at shaw.ca>terrain at shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>> I didn't catch Martha or space travel, sounds like everyone has
>>>>>been having
>>>>> fun this week.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't find the greenbuilding/star travel combination that
>>>>>farfetched. We
>>>>> are the children of our culture and for Americans the starwars generation
>>>>> rules. The was the reinvigoration of mythic archetypes for a
>>>>>few generations
>>>>> and greenbuilding with its concern for meaning and
>>>>>transformation (as well
>>>>> as post apocalyptic obsession) fits just as well as space travel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Old bricks have for at least 20 years been worth a 1/3 more
>>>>>than new bricks
>>>>> given peoples interest in having facades feel timeless (another
>>>>> anthropological oddity) - but not idiotic.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for living walls... when I lived in ny I rented an old boarded up
>>>>> storefront at the base of a tenement between A&B. The door to
>>>>>the back had
>>>>> been boarded up for decades. When I bust it open I found an
>>>>>avenue of wild
>>>>> uninhabited lush greenery that stretched for the whole street behind the
>> >>> tenements. Of course I immediately gentrified it by cutting it down and
>>>>> making a nice little patio and garden. Not sure the point of that but
>>>>> something to do with greenspaces in ny and gentrification of
>>>>>ghettos (a form
>>>>> of space travel at the time).
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also a rule in permaculture - that if you can care (as in keep
>>>>> alive over time)a potted plant on your doorstep you can then move off the
>>>>> doorstep and enlarge your area of governance. Seems to me this
>>>>>both applies
>>>>> to living walls and space travel.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the thing with Martha - thought she was in jail?
>>>>>
>>>>> JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN
>>>>> 4465 UPHILL RD,. DUNCAN, B.C. CANADA, V9L 6M7
>>>> > PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541
>>>>> <mailto:terrain at shaw.ca>terrain at shaw.ca
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: <mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>> [ mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On
>>>>>Behalf Of Gennaro
>>>>> Brooks-Church
>>>>> Sent: February 10, 2011 6:45 PM
>>>>> To: Green Building
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart
>>>>>
>>>>> I've had living walls and space travel labeled a joke this week on
>>>>> this list. I remember being told green roofs were a joke. I got called
>>>>> an idiot just three years ago for salvaging bricks from a dumpster.
>>>>> Laugh on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gennaro Brooks-Church
>>>>>
>>>>> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
>>>>> <http://www.EcoBrooklyn.com>www.EcoBrooklyn.com
>>>>> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Racheli Gai
>>>>> <<mailto:racheli at sonoracohousing.com> racheli at sonoracohousing.com> wrote:
>>>>>> It's a joke, but a sinister one. It keeps many people's gaze on places
>>>>> far
>>>>>> away, rather than caring
>>>>>> for the ground under their feet. It also means that lots of money is
>>>>> spent
>>>>>> chasing BS dreams, while
>>>>>> we have homeless people; untold numbers with not enough to
>>>>>>eat, etc. etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Racheli.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 10, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Ron Cascio wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any kind of escape to another planet is simply a joke. Nothing more.
>>>>> Let's
>>>>>>> move on to something accomplishable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corwyn"
>>>>>>><<mailto:corwyn at midcoast.com>corwyn at midcoast.com>
>>>>>>> To: "Green Building"
>>>>>>><<mailto:greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>>>greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 6:25 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/10/2011 1:47 PM, Gennaro Brooks-Church wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Corwyn my opinion is that we are not at the point where we can
>>>>>>>>> calculate numbers or make any conclusion about whether we can or can
>>>>>>>>> not colonize other planets. The technology is not there. But if the
>>>>>>>>> last century is any indication we could be at a very different
>>>>>>>>> technological point in another 100 years (whether we are space
>>>>>>>>> travelling or living in caves is another question).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, I never said anything about saving the people on
>>>>>>>>>earth. I simply
>>>>>>>>> said the survival of the human race.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps I just think that the idea of murdering 6 Billion
>>>>>>>>people so that
>>>>>>>> a few elitist humans can escape their self-made Armageddon
>>>>>>>>to go live in
>>>>>>>> a hell-hole of another planet, isn't worth hoping for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any technology insufficient to help this planet, won't allow anyone to
>>>>>>>> live on another one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank You Kindly,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Corwyn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Topher Belknap
>>>>>>>> Green Fret Consulting
>>>>>>>> Kermit didn't know the half of it...
>>>>>>>> <http://www.greenfret.com/>http://www.greenfret.com/
>>>>>>>> <mailto:topher at greenfret.com>topher at greenfret.com
>>>>>>>> (207) 882-7652
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Greenbuilding mailing list
>>>>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>>>>> <mailto:Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>>>>Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener>
>>>>>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener
>>>>> <http://gylists.org>gylists.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3434 - Release
>>>>>>>Date: 02/10/11
>>>>>>> 02:34:00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Greenbuilding mailing list
>>>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>>>> <mailto:Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>>>Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener>
>>>>>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener
>>>>> <http://gylists.org>gylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Greenbuilding mailing list
>>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>>> <mailto:Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>>Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener>
>>>>>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener
>>>>> <http://gylists.org>gylists.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Greenbuilding mailing list
>>>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> <mailto:Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>>
>>>>><http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener>
>>>>>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioener
>>>>> <http://gylists.org>gylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Greenbuilding mailing list
>>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>>> <mailto:Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org>
>>>>>Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>>>
>>>>><http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Greenbuilding mailing list
>>>>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>>><mailto:Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org> Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>>>
>>>>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>><http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> "The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the
>>> measure of our bodies are the same..."
>>> - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief
>>> ____________________________________________
>>>
>>> R A I N F O R E S T R E L I E F
>>>
>>> Sparing the World's Rainforests from Consumption
>>>
>>> Rainforest Relief works to protect the world's remaining tropical
>>> and temperate rainforests by reducing the demand for the products
>>> and materials of rainforest destruction such as timber and paper,
>>> industrial agricultural products such as bananas, beef, coffee,
>>> chocolate and cut flowers, and mining products
>>> such as oil, gold and aluminum.
>>>
>>> New York, NY: (917) 543-4064
>>> Portland, OR: (503) 236-3031
>>> <http://www.rainforestrelief.org> http://www.rainforestrelief.org
>>> <mailto:info at rainforestrelief.org>info at rainforestrelief.org
>>> Church Street Station * PO Box 298 * NY, NY 10008-0298
>>>
>>>><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Greenbuilding mailing list
>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > <mailto:Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org> Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>>
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>>
>>><http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>_______________________________________________
>>Greenbuilding mailing list
>>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>>Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>>
>>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>
>David Bergman RA LEED AP
>DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
>architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
>bergman at cyberg.com www.cyberg.com
>241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
>t 212 475 3106 f 212 677 7291
>
>_______________________________________________
>Greenbuilding mailing list
>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>
>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
--
"The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the
measure of our bodies are the same..."
- Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief
____________________________________________
R A I N F O R E S T R E L I E F
Sparing the World's Rainforests from Consumption
Rainforest Relief works to protect the world's remaining tropical
and temperate rainforests by reducing the demand for the products
and materials of rainforest destruction such as timber and paper,
industrial agricultural products such as bananas, beef, coffee,
chocolate and cut flowers, and mining products
such as oil, gold and aluminum.
New York, NY: (917) 543-4064
Portland, OR: (503) 236-3031
http://www.rainforestrelief.org
info at rainforestrelief.org
Church Street Station * PO Box 298 * NY, NY 10008-0298
><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110220/d7e197ff/attachment.html>
More information about the Greenbuilding
mailing list