[Greenbuilding] Counters

[JOHN SALMEN]

I would agree as my experience is the same and should have mentioned that
when ply was used (prior to cemboard being around) a membrane was adhered to
allow for both waterproofing and movement. I mentioned as well for the
counter to use a thin layer of cemboard adhered and screwed and should have
said that you have to use that and still pay attention to the moisture
details and thinset and grout contents. 

 

After all these years I still think tile is one of the best countertop
materials.  It is perfectly suited to the use and abuse. Only the grout
lines need sealing and they can be minimal. Stone needs sealing and erodes
and stains. All the composites look like shit after a day or two of normal
usage (sure they can be resurface but it is like having to refinish the
gelcoat on a boat once a year so it looks good for a day or two). Concrete
can't take ANY acidity - pits and corrodes like crazy. Old concrete and
stone unsealed and left to get dull and gritty look good to me but not to
most people.

 

Unlike Allan I have seen maple butcher block (not end grain - that is
reserved for kitchens) survive. My only reservation is places like Ikea
produce it and I would have to do my Ikea rant to cover that one.

 

Best

John

 

 

 

 

From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Houlihan
Sent: July-27-11 4:23 PM
To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Counters

 

I have build many tile countertops in my career.  I have built mortar beds,
used Durock, Hardibacker and Wonderboard and set tile directly on plywood.
without exception every tile install I did over plywood failed!  I very
strongly discourage this idea! Eventually the grout cracks and water gets
down into the plywood and it swells and destroys the countertop.

In the beginning you said you wanted to do tile and that will still be the
easiest and cheapest.  If you stay away from the very hard porcelain or
vitrified tiles you should have no problem cutting tiles with a snap cutter
or a carborundum grit blade in a jig saw.

My preference for tile counters is to put down a layer of 1/2 inch
Hardibacker Board using lots of screws and a layer of thin-set then set the
tiles on top of this again using thinset.  This makes a very strong and long
lasting countertop.  I have set tile directly on good sheetrock walls for a
backsplash and this works well as long as the house doesn't move too much.
Some re-caulking at the junction of the backsplash and countertop may be
needed.  I have also used 1/4 inch backerboard on backsplashes.  Then you
can use thinset and fiberglass mesh tape at the joint but you have to deal
with the 1/4 inch edge at the top.

Steve



On 7/27/11 6:12 AM, JOHN SALMEN wrote: 

Depends what you mean about warpage. I've even had concrete counters warp
(deflect, bend, twist) - most materials move so it is a question of gluing,
screwing, nailing, supporting, blocking and sealing to provide support and
resist movement. Basic exterior 3/4" ply is pretty resistant to moisture and
moisture damage (can be wetted and dried numerous times without damage).
Before cement boards became common 1/2" exterior ply was the standard backer
for tile walls on premium projects. I would recommend stick with the ply and
tile plan and provide whatever additional support is needed underneath to
support the spans and make the material rigid. A thin layer of cement board
is excellent to use under the tile and is better around sink areas as a
substrate - bond it to the ply with tile mortar and screws (lap any seams in
the ply). 
 
I also recommend butcher block counters. Surprisingly inexpensive natural
material that you can purchase by the foot, refinish numerous times by
sanding and oiling and takes on character as it gets burned and stained and
well used.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
[mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Lynelle
Hamilton
Sent: July-26-11 6:29 PM
To: Green Building
Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Counters
 
The warping is noticeable, so I'm already replacing the ply. I'd have to 
figure out how to keep any new ply from warping, though. What's the heat 
resistance, do you know? Bamboo would be great for the edge.
Thanks, Jason!
 
Lynelle
 
On 26/07/2011 9:20 PM, Jason Holstine wrote:

How about Marmoleum sheet on that plywood (or, if it's warped, replace 
the plywood for about 15 cents). Ol' fashioned, all-natural, easy to 
clean, durable linoleum. Just glue it up on the ply. Material should 
should be about $7/sf and if you're reasonably astute, could be DIY. 
Biggest issue is your front edge-you'll probably want a different 
material for the edge band, like a bamboo, wood, or metal.
 
 
 
 
 
 
On 7/26/11 9:00 PM, "Lynelle Hamilton"  <mailto:lynelle at lahamilton.com>
<lynelle at lahamilton.com> wrote:
 
    Again, I ask the list for advice. I am now at the point of installing
    kitchen counters. I have had plywood on the counters (3/4 overlaid
    and
    screwed to 3/8", as a substrate for tile, but have had warping
    (I'm on
    the water). I don't trust it for tile. I've been told others in
    the area
    have had this problem. They've generally solved it by installing
    Arborite, something I am loathe to do.
 
    That places me squarely in a quandary. I can't find reclaimed granite
    in the size I need--the reclamation folks near me generally sell the
    counters with the cabinets anyway. The budget will not allow for
    "new"
    granite and I want to use something that screws the earth less than
    other options (particularly given that I've already wasted some
    otherwise good plywood).
 
    I am the installer, so it must be pretty simple.
 
    Any creative ideas out there?
 
    Thanks!
 
    Lynelle
 
 
 
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