[Greenbuilding] Climate breakdown is here. (polar ice melt)

David Bergman bergman at cyberg.com
Fri Aug 31 07:49:31 PDT 2012


Haven't followed this thread from the earlier posts, so apologies if 
this is not actually the question at hand, but here's what I 
understand about the relationship between global warming and rising sea levels:

Melting of ice caps on land (esp Greenland, but also parts of 
Antarctica) is a much larger predicted cause of rising sea levels 
than is melting of ice in/on water because the latter are already in 
the water to a large degree so their melting will not add as 
significantly to sea levels as will the addition of water that is 
currently on top of land.

Warmer water expands (separate from the ice expansion question) so, 
even without the addition of water from melting icecaps, sea levels 
will rise as the oceans warm.

David Bergman  RA   LEED AP
DAVID BERGMAN ARCHITECT / FIRE & WATER LIGHTING + FURNITURE
architecture . interiors . ecodesign . lighting . furniture
bergman at cyberg.com    www.cyberg.com
241 Eldridge Street #3R, New York, NY 10002
t 212 475 3106    f 212 677 7291

author - Sustainable Design: A Critical Guide
blog - www.EcoOptimism.com
adjunct faculty - Parsons The New School for Design


At 08:32 AM 8/31/2012, Eli Talking wrote:
>My understanding is the reason water ice has a higher volume than 
>water liquid is that it entraps air in the crystal structure.  My 
>hunch is that if you subtracted the volume of gas air within the ice 
>structure, the volume of the water would be less than the liquid 
>equivalent by weight.
>
>Eli
>
>From: <mailto:steve at tjiang.org>Steven Tjiang
>Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:55 AM
>To: <mailto:greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>Green Building
>Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Climate breakdown is here. (polar ice melt)
>
>I don't think it's the ice in the water that will raise sea levels; 
>It's all the ice that isn't in the water (i.e. Green land and 
>Antarctica).  Also if the sea ice is melting it also likely the 
>landlocked ice is also melting and thus adding more water to the "tub".
>
>---- Steve (KZ6LSD)
>
>
>On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Joe Killian 
><<mailto:kaa-ajk at sonic.net>kaa-ajk at sonic.net> wrote:
>   Classic trick high school question:
>   Fill a glass with ice, add water to the brim (top of ice will 
> float higher).  Let it melt.  Does it overflow?
>   Answer:  No.  The weight (mass) of water displaced by the 
> floating ice is the same as  the weight of all the ice, which is 
> also the same volume of the displaced water once melted.
>   So melting sea ice doesn't raise (or lower) sea level.
>   The fresh water added to the ocean, however, may well accelerate 
> the feared effect of the melting Greenland ice adding fresh water 
> to the North Atlantic and potentially (inevitably?) changing the 
> course of the Gulf Stream.  Whereupon northern Europe's climate 
> becomes more like Siberia's climate.
>    Hang on....
>Joe
>
>
>
>On 8/29/2012 8:32 AM, Alan Abrams wrote:
>>if salt water is more dense than fresh--then when the ice pack 
>>melts, does this not result in a rise in sea level?  No, wait, ice 
>>contracts when it melts.  But most of a floating mass of ice is 
>>submerged, and the volume of the exposed mass is equal to the 
>>increase in volume as a result of freezing...
>>
>>...ouch.  my head hurts.
>>
>>-AA
>>
>>Alan Abrams
>>Abrams Design Build LLC
>>design for purposeful living
>>
>>6411 Orchard Avenue Suite 102
>>Takoma Park, MD 20912
>>office  301-270-NET- ZERO <tel:%28301-270-6380>(301-270-6380)
>>fax      <tel:301-270-1466>301-270-1466
>>cell     <tel:202-437-8583>202-437-8583
>><mailto:alan at abramsdesignbuild.com>alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
>>www.abramsdesignbuild.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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