[Greenbuilding] Climate breakdown is here. (polar ice melt)

Jason Holstine jason at amicusgreen.com
Fri Aug 31 09:22:57 PDT 2012


At the risk of drawing ire from the physicist audience, the icecaps over
water represent massive volumes of locked up water, so when they melt, they
also add water volume that moves around the planet, along with all the
land-based glaciers. Potentially more importantly, it changes salinity, jet
stream, the Thermohaline circulation
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermohaline_circulation), and reflectance
back into the sky; and may be releasing methane and other GHGs that have
been locked up for a few million years. It¹s all these feedback loops that
are scaring the bejeezus out of some scientists.


On 8/31/12 8:32 AM, "Eli Talking" <elitalking at rockbridge.net> wrote:

> My understanding is the reason water ice has a higher volume than water liquid
> is that it entraps air in the crystal structure.  My hunch is that if you
> subtracted the volume of gas air within the ice structure, the volume of the
> water would be less than the liquid equivalent by weight.
>  
> Eli 
>  
> From: Steven Tjiang <mailto:steve at tjiang.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:55 AM
> To: Green Building <mailto:greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Climate breakdown is here. (polar ice melt)
>  
> I don't think it's the ice in the water that will raise sea levels; It's all
> the ice that isn't in the water (i.e. Green land and Antarctica).  Also if the
> sea ice is melting it also likely the landlocked ice is also melting and thus
> adding more water to the "tub".
> 
> ---- Steve (KZ6LSD)
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:47 AM, Joe Killian <kaa-ajk at sonic.net> wrote:
>>  
>>  
>>   Classic trick high school question:
>>   Fill a glass with  ice, add water to the brim (top of ice will float
>> higher).  Let it  melt.  Does it overflow?
>>   Answer:  No.  The weight  (mass) of water displaced by the floating ice is
>> the same as  the weight  of all the ice, which is also the same volume of the
>> displaced water once  melted.
>>   So melting sea ice doesn't raise (or lower) sea  level.
>>   The fresh water added to the ocean, however, may well  accelerate the
>> feared effect of the melting Greenland ice adding fresh water  to the North
>> Atlantic and potentially (inevitably?) changing the course of the  Gulf
>> Stream.  Whereupon northern Europe's climate becomes more like  Siberia's
>> climate.
>>    Hang on....
>> Joe
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On  8/29/2012 8:32 AM, Alan Abrams wrote:
>>  
>>> if salt water is more dense than fresh--then when  the ice pack melts, does
>>> this not result in a rise in sea level?  No,  wait, ice contracts when it
>>> melts.  But most of a floating mass of ice  is submerged, and the volume of
>>> the exposed mass is equal to the increase in  volume as a result of
>>> freezing...
>>> 
>>> ...ouch.  my head  hurts.
>>> 
>>> -AA
>>> 
>>> Alan  Abrams
>>> Abrams Design Build  LLC
>>> design  for purposeful living
>>> 
>>> 6411 Orchard Avenue Suite 102
>>> Takoma  Park, MD 20912
>>> office  301-270-NET- ZERO (301-270-6380 <tel:%28301-270-6380> )
>>> fax       301-270-1466 <tel:301-270-1466>
>>> cell     202-437-8583 <tel:202-437-8583>
>>> alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
>>> www.abramsdesignbuild.com <http://www.abramsdesignbuild.com/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   
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>  
> 
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