[Greenbuilding] small in line heat pump

Thu Mar 22 15:16:38 CDT 2012

I've installed both systems and from my experience it wouldn't be crazy to
even go to a 12" trunk. But with those numbers you could get away with a
10". You definitely want to insulate the duct for sound reasons, especially
if you are increasing the cfm with the inline mini-split. The one drawback
out of the RecoupAerator's many benefits   is that they are noisy
(compared to say a Zhender) , so you want to design accordingly.

Gennaro Brooks-Church
Director, Eco Brooklyn Inc.
Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
www.EcoBrooklyn.com
22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Alan Abrams <alan at abramsdesignbuild.com>wrote:

> Stuart and John--how do you think Mr Slim and the RecoupAerator would
> handle some fairly long duct runs?
> longest would be 12' vertical and 20' horizontal, with at least four 90d
> elbows-
>
> -AA
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Stuart Fix <sfix at renubuildings.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Alan,
>>
>> Check out the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim series. They go down to 9000 Btu/h, and
>> can operate to -20C. We've built a prototype that uses their ducted
>> fancoil unit inline with the ERV supply, with the addition of a return air
>> duct to feed the extra CFM.
>>
>> So in operation:
>>
>> - ERV operates continuously, 100-200CFM, blowing through the fancoil (must
>> use extremely efficient ERV for this to make sense, try UltimateAir
>> RecoupAerator)
>>
>> - Fancoil kicks on as heating or cooling requires, using the 100-200CFM of
>> the ERV and sucks an additional  300-500 CFM through the return air duct.
>> Using the RecoupAerator makes this easy, as its ECM motors are self
>> balancing, so it'll compensate as the Fancoil depressurizes the system.
>>
>> In addition, if your climate is cold enough to require it, the Mitsubishi
>> makes a PAC controller that lets you use the fancoil with an inline
>> electric heater even when the condensing unit outside has locked out due
>> to cold weather.
>>
>> You'll end up upsizing the supply trunk to around 10", but that's still
>> small enough for the ERV to handle by itself.
>>
>> This may not have made sense, drop me a line if you'd like more info or a
>> sketch.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Stuart Fix, P.Eng., LEED® AP
>> PHI Certified Passive House Designer
>> MASc. Building Science
>> Mechanical Engineer
>> ReNü Building Science Inc.
>>
>> #206, 506B St. Albert Trail | St. Albert, Alberta | T8N 5Z1 | C.
>> 780.554.8192 | sfix at renubuildings.com
>>
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:43:26 -0400
>> From: Alan Abrams <alan at abramsdesignbuild.com>
>> To: listserv Green Building new
>>        <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>,
>>        healthyhomebuilding at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Greenbuilding] small in line heat pump
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <CADj3_s6M8kN0nE_T-N=mha3KQhVh-0f+1dwdaKG_2myfrC87gg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> anyone know of a small capacity (12K - 18KBtu) heatpump, suitable for
>> installation in line with an ERV?
>>
>> -a
>>
>>
>> *Alan Abrams**
>> Abrams Design Build LLC*
>> *A sustainable approach to beautiful space*
>>
>> 6411 Orchard Avenue Suite 102
>> Takoma Park, MD 20912
>> office  301-270-NET- ZERO (301-270-6380)
>> fax      301-270-1466
>> cell     202-437-8583
>> alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
>> www.abramsdesignbuild.com
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>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:25:37 -0400
>> From: John Straube <jfstraube at uwaterloo.ca>
>> To: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Cc: healthyhomebuilding at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] small in line heat pump
>> Message-ID: <4F6B6EA1.7090401 at uwaterloo.ca>
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>>
>> Thats a tough one Mr Abrams
>> To deliver 12 KBtu you need about 400, preferably 450 cfm.  So what kind
>> of ERV is it? most residential scale ERVs are like 50 to 150 cfm to serve
>> normal size homes. 400 cfm ERV must be for a commercial use?
>> If you are talking water source HP, Trane  and Florida Heat Pump (now
>> bosch) makes a line of water to water heat pumps that small, and you use a
>> stadard coil in the air stream.
>> For air to air, all of the standard split units (meaning you can put the
>> coil in a duct airstream) start at 18 kBtu/hr.  Which requires a lot more
>> airflow yet again. But Goodman Trane Carrier all make units at 1.5 tons,
>> they are just not that efficient.
>>
>> On 12-03-22 11:43 AM, Alan Abrams wrote:
>> > anyone know of a small capacity (12K - 18KBtu) heatpump, suitable for
>> installation in line with an ERV?
>> >
>> > -a
>> >
>> >
>> > *Alan Abrams**
>> > Abrams Design Build LLC*
>> > /A sustainable approach to beautiful space/
>> >
>> > 6411 Orchard Avenue Suite 102
>> > Takoma Park, MD 20912
>> > office 301-270-NET- ZERO (301-270-6380) fax 301-270-1466 cell
>> > 202-437-8583 alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
>> > <mailto:alan at abramsdesignbuild.com>
>> > www.abramsdesignbuild.com <http://www.abramsdesignbuild.com/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> Prof. John Straube, Ph.D., P.Eng.
>> Faculty of Engineering
>> Dept of Civil Engineering / School of Architecture
>>
>> www.buildingscience.com
>>
>>
>>
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