[Greenbuilding] small in line heat pump

Alan Abrams alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
Thu Mar 22 16:27:20 CDT 2012


thnx for the advice!


On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:16 PM, Gennaro Brooks-Church - Eco Brooklyn <
info at ecobrooklyn.com> wrote:

> I've installed both systems and from my experience it wouldn't be crazy to
> even go to a 12" trunk. But with those numbers you could get away with a
> 10". You definitely want to insulate the duct for sound reasons, especially
> if you are increasing the cfm with the inline mini-split. The one drawback
> out of the RecoupAerator's many benefits   is that they are noisy
> (compared to say a Zhender) , so you want to design accordingly.
>
> Gennaro Brooks-Church
> Director, Eco Brooklyn Inc.
> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
> www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Alan Abrams <alan at abramsdesignbuild.com>wrote:
>
>> Stuart and John--how do you think Mr Slim and the RecoupAerator would
>> handle some fairly long duct runs?
>> longest would be 12' vertical and 20' horizontal, with at least four 90d
>> elbows-
>>
>> -AA
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Stuart Fix <sfix at renubuildings.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Alan,
>>>
>>> Check out the Mitsubishi Mr. Slim series. They go down to 9000 Btu/h, and
>>> can operate to -20C. We've built a prototype that uses their ducted
>>> fancoil unit inline with the ERV supply, with the addition of a return
>>> air
>>> duct to feed the extra CFM.
>>>
>>> So in operation:
>>>
>>> - ERV operates continuously, 100-200CFM, blowing through the fancoil
>>> (must
>>> use extremely efficient ERV for this to make sense, try UltimateAir
>>> RecoupAerator)
>>>
>>> - Fancoil kicks on as heating or cooling requires, using the 100-200CFM
>>> of
>>> the ERV and sucks an additional  300-500 CFM through the return air duct.
>>> Using the RecoupAerator makes this easy, as its ECM motors are self
>>> balancing, so it'll compensate as the Fancoil depressurizes the system.
>>>
>>> In addition, if your climate is cold enough to require it, the Mitsubishi
>>> makes a PAC controller that lets you use the fancoil with an inline
>>> electric heater even when the condensing unit outside has locked out due
>>> to cold weather.
>>>
>>> You'll end up upsizing the supply trunk to around 10", but that's still
>>> small enough for the ERV to handle by itself.
>>>
>>> This may not have made sense, drop me a line if you'd like more info or a
>>> sketch.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Stuart Fix, P.Eng., LEED® AP
>>> PHI Certified Passive House Designer
>>> MASc. Building Science
>>> Mechanical Engineer
>>> ReNü Building Science Inc.
>>>
>>> #206, 506B St. Albert Trail | St. Albert, Alberta | T8N 5Z1 | C.
>>> 780.554.8192 | sfix at renubuildings.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:43:26 -0400
>>> From: Alan Abrams <alan at abramsdesignbuild.com>
>>> To: listserv Green Building new
>>>        <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>,
>>>        healthyhomebuilding at yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: [Greenbuilding] small in line heat pump
>>> Message-ID:
>>>
>>> <CADj3_s6M8kN0nE_T-N=mha3KQhVh-0f+1dwdaKG_2myfrC87gg at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> anyone know of a small capacity (12K - 18KBtu) heatpump, suitable for
>>> installation in line with an ERV?
>>>
>>> -a
>>>
>>>
>>> *Alan Abrams**
>>> Abrams Design Build LLC*
>>> *A sustainable approach to beautiful space*
>>>
>>> 6411 Orchard Avenue Suite 102
>>> Takoma Park, MD 20912
>>> office  301-270-NET- ZERO (301-270-6380)
>>> fax      301-270-1466
>>> cell     202-437-8583
>>> alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
>>> www.abramsdesignbuild.com
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>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:25:37 -0400
>>> From: John Straube <jfstraube at uwaterloo.ca>
>>> To: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Cc: healthyhomebuilding at yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] small in line heat pump
>>> Message-ID: <4F6B6EA1.7090401 at uwaterloo.ca>
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>>>
>>> Thats a tough one Mr Abrams
>>> To deliver 12 KBtu you need about 400, preferably 450 cfm.  So what kind
>>> of ERV is it? most residential scale ERVs are like 50 to 150 cfm to serve
>>> normal size homes. 400 cfm ERV must be for a commercial use?
>>> If you are talking water source HP, Trane  and Florida Heat Pump (now
>>> bosch) makes a line of water to water heat pumps that small, and you use
>>> a
>>> stadard coil in the air stream.
>>> For air to air, all of the standard split units (meaning you can put the
>>> coil in a duct airstream) start at 18 kBtu/hr.  Which requires a lot more
>>> airflow yet again. But Goodman Trane Carrier all make units at 1.5 tons,
>>> they are just not that efficient.
>>>
>>> On 12-03-22 11:43 AM, Alan Abrams wrote:
>>> > anyone know of a small capacity (12K - 18KBtu) heatpump, suitable for
>>> installation in line with an ERV?
>>> >
>>> > -a
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > *Alan Abrams**
>>> > Abrams Design Build LLC*
>>> > /A sustainable approach to beautiful space/
>>> >
>>> > 6411 Orchard Avenue Suite 102
>>> > Takoma Park, MD 20912
>>> > office 301-270-NET- ZERO (301-270-6380) fax 301-270-1466 cell
>>> > 202-437-8583 alan at abramsdesignbuild.com
>>> > <mailto:alan at abramsdesignbuild.com>
>>> > www.abramsdesignbuild.com <http://www.abramsdesignbuild.com/>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Prof. John Straube, Ph.D., P.Eng.
>>> Faculty of Engineering
>>> Dept of Civil Engineering / School of Architecture
>>>
>>> www.buildingscience.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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