[Greenbuilding] Abandoned mine turned into a pumped storage system...

[RT]

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 15:31:09 -0500, Gordon Howell -- Howell Mayhew  
Engineering <ghowell at hme.ca> wrote:

>
> I'd be interested in your comments about why you think it is a  
> greenwashing scam.
>
>> redevelop a former open pit mine (owned/operated by Bethlehem Steel, in  
>> Southeastern Ontario to turn it into a "storage battery five times the  
>> size of Niagara Falls".
>
> http://tinyurl.com/a8u2gl4


I don't know nuttin' about nuttin' about pumped storage systems so my  
comments were directed at the Marmora pit proposal in particular.

Why do I think it's a greenwashing scam ?

The mine pit is about 200 kms from Toronto, Toronto presumably being the  
beneficiary of the battery storage since I doubt that the communities near  
the pit need that capacity.

So besides the losses due to inefficiencies in the pumping paraphernalia  
(WatJohn mentioned a ballpark figure of ~25%  as a guesstimate ?) there  
would presumably be transmission losses both ways (ie charging and  
discharging the "battery") which I'm assuming would be an additional ~10%  
each way ?

So are we talking about ~40% loss before anyone has benefited from the  
"battery" ?

Second over half the electricity in Ontario is produced by nukes. The  
Green power produced by windmills and PV arrays would likely never ever  
play a role in charging the battery.. most definitely not the PV power  
plants.

It's been a while since I've visited the Marmora area but I'm fairly  
certain that there isn't a massive power line corridor running from  
Marmora to Toronto that resembles the transmission infrastructure running  
between Niagara Falls and Toronto. That makes me wonder how all that  
electricity gets from Marmora to Toronto when Toronto needs it, presumably  
more than the trickle that existing infrastructure would accommodate ? Who  
would pay for the construction of the new, larger-capacity infrastructure  
? I doubt that it would be the promoters of the pumped storage idea.  
(Rhetorical question -- the consumers would be tagged with the bill.)

The basic premise behind the battery is that the pumps to fill the  
reservoir run at night when electricity rates are lower and then the  
electricity is sold back to the utility during high-demand periods.

I'm not sure what the rate for hydro projects under the FIT program but if  
it's anything like the MicroFIT program (ie the utility pays about 5x the  
"normal" rate to the producer) then what's happening is that the PSS  
producers are buying subsidised-by-ratepayers cheap electricity to charge  
up the battery and then selling it back to the ratepayers at an  
exhorbitant markup (500% ?).

Isn't that like me buying a pig from my neighbour, a pig that he fattened  
up on feed that cost him more than what the pig is worth at the  
slaughterhouse, for a discounted price (ie less than the market price) ...  
and then I eat 40% of the pig and then sell what's left of the pig back to  
the farmer at 5x the price he would pay for the same amount of pork at the  
supermarket ?

Seems that in both examples, the ratepayers and the farmer are getting  
"scammed" if not "screwed".
No ?

The other thing that bothers me about the Marmora proposal is the  
proximity of the mine tailing heaps (which would be used to construct the  
battery reservoir) to the village. What would happen to the village should  
a failure occur ? $#!+ happens.

And where does all the water to "charge" the battery come from ? You can't  
take that much water from some place and not have an effect on that water  
system.

So now you can add the local residents and ecosystem to the list of those  
getting "screwed" . No ?

But enough of that.




-- 
=== * ===
Rob Tom					AOD257
Kanata, Ontario, Canada

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