[Stoves] What will people pay for a stove?

Wed Dec 1 11:05:27 CST 2010

Hi Stovers,

This is all really interesting...well the whole story behind what the
users "can" pay and "will" pay is what they expect to benefit from the
stove in terms of finanicial incentives...is they are making mud
stoves out of mud they collect from the river banks and spend time
making them without having to worry about the cost, they would most
definitely reject outright any costs related to the purchase of the
stove...this happens in case the users dont have to purchase the fuel
and hence the fuel costs can be directly related to the
savings..however if the fuel they use is not purchased and is
available in plenty they would most definitely not see a direct link
to them purchasing an efficient stove...micro-finance is a way to go
for these stoves but I would most definitely like to gather ideas and
suggestions from you guys about getting the stoves to the users and
them paying for it...at the moment I am working on developing a dung
burning stove for South Nepal where the users burn cow dung...I have
been working on designing the stove and have now fabricated the MACH 1
stove which seems to work pretty well...have tried to incorporate the
TLUD principles into the design...still working on it though...any of
the stovers got any new ideas and opinions on burning of dung they can
share for the stove...would really appreciate it guys...cheers

Sarbagya Tuladhar
EWB Australia

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 AM, Charlie Sellers <csellers42 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I changed the subject line because we were drifting, and retained Crispin's
> comments below because they bring up good points.  We seem to be mixing up
> what people "can" pay (e.g. if they take into account their fuel expense
> savings due to a new stove, or possible future income from biochar) and what
> they "will" pay.  Too often we seem to be assuming that all of the world
> follows first world logic in making financial decisions - we all may hope to
> choose a new appliance based on a careful analysis of the different models
> available and the potential cost savings, but people in other circumstances
> often reason in other ways.  During my stove projects in Central/South
> America I certainly see the leaking of cash on hand - no matter how low the
> local income, kids seem to have money for a frozen chocolate covered banana,
> and I once saw an entire ice cream cart hauled by truck high into the Andes
> to deliver treats to a distant weekly market.  Even people with low incomes
> want some of it to be disposable, and I doubt that we are easily going to be
> able to change that by insisting that sacrificing their little pleasures (to
> save and buy a stove) might be in their best interest.  We have lots of
> information available to us when making such decisions, and we value what we
> read and hear, but what if in a different culture they are used to only
> believing what they experience for themselves?
> Another leakage I see often is for alcohol - women in some areas know that
> they must spend all of their money by the weekend, or it will be spent by
> someone on whatever the local alcoholic beverage is.  It is likely that they
> don't see that they have another option for now - saving money in banks has
> not been something that people in their situation do, and until we change
> that then leakage will be all too common and improved stoves mostly too
> expensive.  Microfinance (experiencing problems right now in India) is one
> approach, but micro-savings is something I expect we'll be seeing more of:
> http://povertynewsblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/gates-foundation-to-give-500-million.html
> And as we know, making such financial services options available to women is
> particularly important - they tend to gather the fuel and get the most
> exposure to smoke.  But they don't necessarily make spending (or savings)
> decisions for the family, and that situation is hard to change.
> The western stoving community still too often seems fixated on technical
> aspects of getting improved stoves into the marketplace, when we need to
> spend a little more time trying to think like our potential customers.  For
> example, before we push biochar from stoves, shouldn't we be soliciting
> reports from the field on efforts to determine if people are willing to
> divert potential cooking fuel to their fields - based on the scanty evidence
> that we can provide to them on potential agricultural benefits?  We may have
> published papers that support our point of view - certainly we are learning
> more every day - but can we presently offer a persuasive explanation that
> low income families will accept?  Thinking like a single mother who is
> probably already overwhelmed with responsibilities, it is hard for me to
> justify paying more for a char producing stove when no one has yet
> demonstrated to me more of the vegetables my family eats from the soil type
> in my own backyard with the amount of char I will produce.  TLUDs of course
> have other benefits - low emissions, cleaner pots, possibilities for cheaper
> fuels, etc. - and those we can easily demonstrate to people, so we should
> start with these.
> The only ICS that is successful is one that people will buy and keep using
> in an efficient manner (and recommend to their neighbors) - how can we
> design stoves and stove programs so that this happens?  I suggest that it is
> by spending a little more time being realistic about sociocultural issues
> within our target communities, instead of imagining that they think just
> like we do.  What choices to people have, and how do they make them?
> Charlie
> ________________________________
> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 10:36:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] K Smith Article in Energy for Sustainable Development
>
> Dear Boston
>
>
>
> In Zambia, a charcoal stove that costs more than $3.50 won’t sell. The
> standard one is $1.50.
>
>
>
> The reason is the inability to accumulate that much cash. I have seen work
> by Cecil Cooking showing that ten days income is the maximum cash people can
> generally accumulate (about 1/3 of a month’s income). Above that is starts
> to leak out of the pocket.
>
>
>
> $10 is above the cost people can usually pay for a stove. $5 has a chance
> without finance (like two payments).
>
>
>
> Here in Ulaanbaatar people can afford to pay $75 if it is financed, no
> problem. The Xas Bank is doing exactly that. The stoves are subsidised by
> $50 as well (it is actually a $125 stove). It saves about $300 per heating
> season so it is a no-brainer if financing is offered.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
>
>
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