[Stoves] What will people pay for a stove?

Thu Dec 2 22:25:56 CST 2010

Hi Sarbagya ji and Stovers

It is so great to know about your works in southern Nepal ,I hope you mean
about Plai Area(Terai).We here in Nepal working for past many years with
appropriate energy we have worked in Lamjung Gorkha sindhupalchok in Hill
and Mahottari Dhanusha Siraha and Saptari District In south plain(My self
from one of these District).while working in these district in south what is
major problem we encountered is "Behavior change ".When we worked on Mud
stove with Chimney"ICS"(Improved Cooking Stove ),There is 32 inch width is
major obstacle in their kitchen as you know the major user are land less and
peasent who doesnot have a proper kitchen ,as they use kitchen as many
purpose i.e. its work as store ,Kitchen and they also rear their goat sheep
there.The second is Cost for those target beneficiaries who doesnot have
access to fuelwood on their own they use agri waste and dung (Guitha) for
for cooking.Mainly the elder one and or child/Kids are working for these
fuel collection so its quite tough to compare saving from fuel vs earning
value of their spent time (As both are not have any moneterary earning jobs)
.To make a mud stove will cost one around 300 Nrs($4 USD) and for today
calculation its for 3 to 4 days earning.

we are now trying to disseminate metal Stove (TLUD)in those area as it is
portable and have some Metal resale value .What we are doing is integrating
BIOCHAR for Agriculture it might good for small holder  but doing this we
again dont have any idea how to reach Those Dalit and Poorest as we have the
same financial Problem.We trying it without any external funding but with it
we r not able to reach proper Target Group.

Involving micro-finance i just have gone through Practical Action initiative
in Gorkha but once the project phase out there is no replication though they
involved MFIs there so i think for dissemination we must choose the price
and Sweet technology so we can lure user to pay for it.
For Tlud with Dung Burning i just sw a diagram about kenya they used Mud for
It i will like to know more about it if any one of stover have exact
information about it .And in these Plain area dung burning is from centuries
so do they know how to burn it primary air if you can figure out about
secondary air then i am sure You give us that sweet technology.

If you gone through yesterday mail in List from Mr Rajan about Servals india
and Dr.Anderson it might seems interesting .

Our wish with you

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Sarbagya Tuladhar <sarbagya007 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Stovers,
>
> This is all really interesting...well the whole story behind what the
> users "can" pay and "will" pay is what they expect to benefit from the
> stove in terms of finanicial incentives...is they are making mud
> stoves out of mud they collect from the river banks and spend time
> making them without having to worry about the cost, they would most
> definitely reject outright any costs related to the purchase of the
> stove...this happens in case the users dont have to purchase the fuel
> and hence the fuel costs can be directly related to the
> savings..however if the fuel they use is not purchased and is
> available in plenty they would most definitely not see a direct link
> to them purchasing an efficient stove...micro-finance is a way to go
> for these stoves but I would most definitely like to gather ideas and
> suggestions from you guys about getting the stoves to the users and
> them paying for it...at the moment I am working on developing a dung
> burning stove for South Nepal where the users burn cow dung...I have
> been working on designing the stove and have now fabricated the MACH 1
> stove which seems to work pretty well...have tried to incorporate the
> TLUD principles into the design...still working on it though...any of
> the stovers got any new ideas and opinions on burning of dung they can
> share for the stove...would really appreciate it guys...cheers
>
> Sarbagya Tuladhar
> EWB Australia
>
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 4:09 AM, Charlie Sellers <csellers42 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > I changed the subject line because we were drifting, and retained
> Crispin's
> > comments below because they bring up good points.  We seem to be mixing
> up
> > what people "can" pay (e.g. if they take into account their fuel expense
> > savings due to a new stove, or possible future income from biochar) and
> what
> > they "will" pay.  Too often we seem to be assuming that all of the world
> > follows first world logic in making financial decisions - we all may hope
> to
> > choose a new appliance based on a careful analysis of the different
> models
> > available and the potential cost savings, but people in other
> circumstances
> > often reason in other ways.  During my stove projects in Central/South
> > America I certainly see the leaking of cash on hand - no matter how low
> the
> > local income, kids seem to have money for a frozen chocolate covered
> banana,
> > and I once saw an entire ice cream cart hauled by truck high into the
> Andes
> > to deliver treats to a distant weekly market.  Even people with low
> incomes
> > want some of it to be disposable, and I doubt that we are easily going to
> be
> > able to change that by insisting that sacrificing their little pleasures
> (to
> > save and buy a stove) might be in their best interest.  We have lots of
> > information available to us when making such decisions, and we value what
> we
> > read and hear, but what if in a different culture they are used to only
> > believing what they experience for themselves?
> > Another leakage I see often is for alcohol - women in some areas know
> that
> > they must spend all of their money by the weekend, or it will be spent by
> > someone on whatever the local alcoholic beverage is.  It is likely that
> they
> > don't see that they have another option for now - saving money in banks
> has
> > not been something that people in their situation do, and until we change
> > that then leakage will be all too common and improved stoves mostly too
> > expensive.  Microfinance (experiencing problems right now in India) is
> one
> > approach, but micro-savings is something I expect we'll be seeing more
> of:
> >
> http://povertynewsblog.blogspot.com/2010/11/gates-foundation-to-give-500-million.html
> > And as we know, making such financial services options available to women
> is
> > particularly important - they tend to gather the fuel and get the most
> > exposure to smoke.  But they don't necessarily make spending (or savings)
> > decisions for the family, and that situation is hard to change.
> > The western stoving community still too often seems fixated on technical
> > aspects of getting improved stoves into the marketplace, when we need to
> > spend a little more time trying to think like our potential customers.
>  For
> > example, before we push biochar from stoves, shouldn't we be soliciting
> > reports from the field on efforts to determine if people are willing to
> > divert potential cooking fuel to their fields - based on the scanty
> evidence
> > that we can provide to them on potential agricultural benefits?  We may
> have
> > published papers that support our point of view - certainly we are
> learning
> > more every day - but can we presently offer a persuasive explanation that
> > low income families will accept?  Thinking like a single mother who is
> > probably already overwhelmed with responsibilities, it is hard for me to
> > justify paying more for a char producing stove when no one has yet
> > demonstrated to me more of the vegetables my family eats from the soil
> type
> > in my own backyard with the amount of char I will produce.  TLUDs of
> course
> > have other benefits - low emissions, cleaner pots, possibilities for
> cheaper
> > fuels, etc. - and those we can easily demonstrate to people, so we should
> > start with these.
> > The only ICS that is successful is one that people will buy and keep
> using
> > in an efficient manner (and recommend to their neighbors) - how can we
> > design stoves and stove programs so that this happens?  I suggest that it
> is
> > by spending a little more time being realistic about sociocultural issues
> > within our target communities, instead of imagining that they think just
> > like we do.  What choices to people have, and how do they make them?
> > Charlie
> > ________________________________
> > From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> > To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> > Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 10:36:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Stoves] K Smith Article in Energy for Sustainable
> Development
> >
> > Dear Boston
> >
> >
> >
> > In Zambia, a charcoal stove that costs more than $3.50 won’t sell. The
> > standard one is $1.50.
> >
> >
> >
> > The reason is the inability to accumulate that much cash. I have seen
> work
> > by Cecil Cooking showing that ten days income is the maximum cash people
> can
> > generally accumulate (about 1/3 of a month’s income). Above that is
> starts
> > to leak out of the pocket.
> >
> >
> >
> > $10 is above the cost people can usually pay for a stove. $5 has a chance
> > without finance (like two payments).
> >
> >
> >
> > Here in Ulaanbaatar people can afford to pay $75 if it is financed, no
> > problem. The Xas Bank is doing exactly that. The stoves are subsidised by
> > $50 as well (it is actually a $125 stove). It saves about $300 per
> heating
> > season so it is a no-brainer if financing is offered.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Crispin
> >
> >
> >
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-- 
Prakash jha
+9779851039627
Energy and environment
New Baneswor,Kathmandu,Nepal
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